The Science of Parenting
This institution is an equal opportunity provider. For the full non-discrimination statement or accommodation inquiries, go to www.extension.iastate.edu/diversity/ext.
The Science of Parenting
Relationships and Regulation | S.9 Ep.6
Have you heard of attachment theory? This week we will explore what it is (and what it’s not) and the role that our parent-child relationship has in regulation.
Send us an email: parenting@iastate.edu.
Find us on Facebook: @scienceofparent.
This institution is an equal opportunity provider. For the full non-discrimination statement or accommodation inquiries, go to www.extension.iastate.edu/diversity/ext
Welcome to The Science of Parenting podcast, where we connect you with research based information that fits your family. I'm Lori Korthals, parent of three in two different life stages. Two are launched, and one is still in high school. And I'm a parenting educator.
Mackenzie Johnson:And I'm Mackenzie Johnson, a parent of two littles with their own quirks. And I'm a parenting educator. Today, we'll talk about the realities of raising a family, and how research can help guide our parenting decisions. Hi, everybody, welcome back to another episode of The Science of Parenting podcast. Welcome.
Lori Korthals:We're glad you came back. This is season nine. Right?
Mackenzie Johnson:Yeah. We're talking all about regulation still. I mean, sometimes I'm like, still. And I'm like, maybe I shouldn't say that. And last week, we took a look at that self-determination theory. Kids have, everybody not just kids, have these three basic needs, and that when we help meet them, we create an environment that helps them regulate. So that's a good thing. So we can encourage the regulation and those needs.
Lori Korthals:I need a timeout to just jump on a soapbox here for a second and just say, I was teaching a class the other day and talking about our podcast and the people in the room were talking about listening to season three temperament. And I was saying, well, this current class we're talking about is positive discipline. So you could start listening to season eight, positive discipline, and they were like, oh, no, no, we have to go in order. So I want to take this moment as your cohost in podcast land to say, you do not have to start from season one and go all the way through in order. You legitimately can choose to jump into our podcast anytime something sounds super interesting to you. Now, if it's taken you one through nine seasons to finally get here, and now you're like, oh, now she tells us we can go to nine. Sorry about that.
Mackenzie Johnson:In season 53, they'll be so glad we told them early.
Lori Korthals:Oh, glad when they are season 53 and are like, oh, I would have been jumping around and bouncing around to what makes sense to me.
Mackenzie Johnson:Oh, yeah, I completely agree. Let that go.
Lori Korthals:Back to our regularly scheduled programming. I just needed to take a moment to say that.
Mackenzie Johnson:Okay, thank you for saying it.
Lori Korthals:Okay, so, this week, again, we are going to look at several citations from the Handbook of Parenting volume five, specifically the chapter on child regulation from Dr. Wendy Rolnick and colleagues. So those are where our citations are coming from, a super great book on, you know, a handbook, goodness sakes, on parenting of all things.
Mackenzie Johnson:Right. And we do have a couple extra this week, not just from that. We took like a little different journey here in this episode, because we get to talk about attachment and how that's related to regulation. So we're talking about attachment today, some from that chapter and some other just good stuff we get to talk about. We don't have to, we're excited to.
Lori Korthals:You're just gonna have to listen. So we're gonna dive right in to what is attachment? I love thinking of attachment as the title that we said, attachment and connection. To me, that's my word picture, somethings attached. And in this case, it's the child and the adult, right? And when the child and adult are attached, what it does is it gives the child feelings of safety, feelings of security, feelings of protection. And ultimately, the adult is like, you know, that's the safe base. Did you play tag as a kid like, I'm base, I'm the parent base, right? And attachment theory actually comes from the 1950s. And so specifically in the 1950s, they were looking at infants and attachment. But we're really going to talk about attachment through the lifecycle of the child. But yeah, I'm base. I'm base.
Mackenzie Johnson:I'm on base. Bowlby and Ainsworth, are really credited with this attachment theory. And yeah, that initial study was focused on infants. And honestly, the sample was mostly middle class white people, you know, so we keep that in mind of who all was included and gathering that data. But what they found in that study is basically there's four different types of attachment. So again, the tie between the parent and the child and in that case, the infant, you know, but we aren't going to go through all four. Actually, I've been seeing them on social media. It's like a thing on one of the platforms I'm on that they're talking about all these different kinds of attachment. I'm like, yeah, that's the real stuff. Oh, thank you, Bowlby. Yes, yeah. But we're going to focus today on secure attachment. Like, what does it look like when we're securely attached with our kids.
Lori Korthals:Secure attachment. So here's what I think of when I think of a strong attachment, secure attachment. Our kids feel happy around us, they feel secure around us, they know they can trust us, when we leave they might have a little protest or 10. And then when we return they're happy. And again, the research that Bowlby and friends did was with infants. But establishing attachment can grow throughout the child's lifecycle. And sometimes, you know, we feel less attached than other times, maybe during those teen years, but we're still forming strong attachments through their lifespan.
Mackenzie Johnson:Yeah, a lot of that research was focused on infants, but yeah, since then, they're like, hey, all over the lifespan, we see the importance of attachment and how it like wanes and grows. And one thing that I think is interesting about attachment theory is, okay, and confession. I have a degree in Human Development which doesn't mean I know everything, but I felt pretty informed. I know some stuff. Right? And I'm passionate about parenting research. Last year, like a year ago, so if you've heard the term attachment parenting is like a movement in parenting. I didn't know that attachment parenting and attachment theory were not the same thing. Like I just assumed that they were based on each other. Totally separate, actually. So attachment theory, 1950s, Bowlby, focuses on secure attachment. And then attachment parenting actually came from a book by Sears and Sears in the 1990s. And so they they talk about these seven B's, they're basic practices that are involved in attachment parenting. And so it's a specific checklist of items. And so those are different. I'm not saying one or the other, I'm just saying today we're talking about attachment theory, which is a different thing than attachment parenting. They mean different things. And there's actually a fantastic article on this confusion from the Greater Good Science Center from Berkeley. They have a great article about attachment parenting versus attachment theory and that confusion. So I just like, what? I just assumed that they were the same thing. No, no. Different. Fascinating.
Lori Korthals:And, you know, in all honesty, I think that had I given much thought to the two, I can't say that I would have, you know, I wouldn't have made the same confusion, you know. I thought the same thing when I read that.
Mackenzie Johnson:And I even follow on social media pages that are related to one or the other. And I hadn't connected the dots that they're actually based on, not like opposite ideas like, but that they're not related. I assumed that one fed the other. And it's like, okay, no, they're separate based on totally different things.
Lori Korthals:So here's a little bit more research then on specifically attachment theory. Right. And so this information comes from the Institute of Child Development at the University of Minnesota. And essentially, these colleagues there have studied attachment theory for over 40 years. Right. So and basically what they're saying is, attachment is this deep, abiding confidence, like I feel warm and fuzzy just saying those words. This deep abiding confidence a baby has in the availability and responsiveness of the caregiver. So the baby knows the caregiver is available to them, and that they're responding to whatever those needs are. I love that, you know, 40 years of research says that attachment is that baby feeling like you're there for them and responding to them.
Mackenzie Johnson:Yes. And so Dr. Sharuf is the one that's from University of Minnesota, who we take this quote from and yeah, I love that deep abiding confidence. Yeah. But also, you know, he talks about the importance that attachment gives for exploration, because children are securely attached, they can explore their environment. Because they have base, right, they can run out and play and then run back to home base to be safe. But he also talks about that developing secure attachment is not a set of tricks. So it's not like these things you must do or you won't get secure attachment. He's like, that's not it. He talks about it as an ongoing process, which honestly, I'm like, that's kind of a relief for me. Yeah. As I think about it, I've shared before my experience with certain parenting practices that I was like, must do, right. And the shame that came when that didn't work out with my kids and all that. I'm like, there's a lot of grace in knowing there's a lot of different ways I can develop secure attachment instead of just must, must must. Yeah, so that was like, I like that he described it as not a bag of tricks. But yeah, just an ongoing process we build. And I loved that.
Lori Korthals:So what does this have to do with regulation?
Mackenzie Johnson:Right? I feel like that's what I asked all season. Yeah, there's all this background. Yeah.
Lori Korthals:Yeah. What does this have to do with regulation? Yes. Yeah. Well, basically, here's a really simple answer. The more secure attachment we have with our kids, the better our child is able to regulate their behaviors. That's it, plain and simple. The stronger our attachment is with our child, the better our child is able to regulate their behaviors.
Mackenzie Johnson:That's it. That's great. That's the connection. Yeah, when they're securely attached, they can regulate. Okay, I'm gonna say it another way. Okay. Our caregiving responses as parents shape our children's ability to regulate their emotion, and I love this, explore their emotional responses. They can try out which like, hello, I have been witness to that.
Lori Korthals:How about this response today, Mama?
Mackenzie Johnson:That's the hitting, talking about that last season, but they can explore those emotional responses because they feel safe. So yes, it can be the case that your children melt down with you and are, quote unquote, more difficult to you than other people because you have secure attachment. Because they are on home base and they're safe here.
Lori Korthals:They feel safe.
Mackenzie Johnson:Yes. Yes. But that connection that basically, when we can establish secure attachment with our kids, which we build over time, right? It's not like, oh, my children, and I know you talked about with temperament. She's already one. Yes, she's late. Am I failing? There's a great window in the early childhood years to develop it. But if your kids are older than that, and you're learning about secure attachment, it's not too late. Because we keep building it over time. We do. Yes. Yes. And thinking about this idea of attachment and regulation makes me think of one of our podcasts, Barb, makes me think of one of her favorite words. Can you think of what I'm thinking of?
Lori Korthals:Oh, yes, I know. I know. Co-regulation.
Mackenzie Johnson:Yeah. I feel like I'm in her head.
Lori Korthals:Do it together. Co-regulation.
Mackenzie Johnson:Co-regulation. We can regulate together because we're attached. We have secure attachment. And I also would like to acknowledge for a second my soapbox for today. We talked in a previous episode about how we might have feelings around the word independence. I think that we could have feelings around the word attached. Okay. Absolutely. For some people, you know, we talked about the word detached. Yeah. Like, maybe we feel like our parents weren't emotionally available to us, or that, you know, physically they weren't in the same home as me. So you don't feel attached or I think of in relationships, people talk about like, well, are you attached or unattached? So it's like, there's connotations to this word attached or physically, like, when we call our kids Velcro. I also think of that when I think of attached in parenting. So like, okay, what were we talking about?
Lori Korthals:And I think of a bungee cord, goes out and comes in, goes out comes in, goes out and comes in. Yeah.
Mackenzie Johnson:To me that's attachment theory. That's what we're talking about. It's not the velcro attached. It's not the relationship attached. It's not the detached or attached. Yes, yes. Yeah, word picture, Lori. It's the bungee cord of like, I feel secure with you. And I can go and explore and come back home. Yes. Actually, I have a sign in my office. Okay. Full Side note. I have a quote on a sign in my office. That's a quote from a book that talks about, oh, what's her name? It's gonna elude me. I can look. Margaret Weis Brown. It talks about, if you become a bird I can become the tree that you come home to. And I've never connected before right now. I read that book to my kids. I always have. I love that book, Runaway Bunny, but that if you become a bird, I can become a tree that you come home to and I've never connected it until you said bungee cord. That's attachment. Okay, and super cool. Back to regular scheduled programming while I cry.
Lori Korthals:Oh goodness, today's podcast episode brought to you by squirrel.
Mackenzie Johnson:Okay, so there's this term when we talk about attachment. So in the research they talk about MRO, a mutually responsive orientation. Okay, um, mutually responsive orientation. So my understanding, so it is Kochanska and their colleagues develop this definition in the late 90s. And they keep publishing about it, into the early 2000s. But basically, when we think it's like, okay, big words, but let's think literal, mutually responsive orientation. Basically, it's this idea of a default tendency or a natural tendency between a parent and child to respond to each other, to have that back and forth in a way that they're kind of, they say mutually binding or mutually cooperative. And that, really, it's this warmth and even they use the word eagerness between parents and children to cooperate and respond to one another's cues, which very much to me sounds like what we talked about with co-regulation. But yeah, so mutually responsive orientation, it can be this tendency between a parent and child, that they respond to each other. They show up for each other. And I was like, that's beautiful. I don't know why I love terminology. You know, I love technical terminology. And then we're like, wait, why is it so technical? Because Mackenzie always makes it technical.
Lori Korthals:It seems like this volley and return, you know, and it's very fluid, and it's back and forth, and back and forth. And the idea that this warmth and responsive cooperation, the idea that what this is doing is creating strong attachment, which again, when it comes to regulation says, doing this volley return, serve and back and forth, helps our child better regulate themselves. Yes. I mean, it sounds like it's a no brainer, like just respond your child.
Mackenzie Johnson:Okay, just be responsible.
Lori Korthals:You're terminology, and I'm oversimplification.
Mackenzie Johnson:Good thing. Good thing. But yeah, so we've been powering through this like, right, what's attachment? How's it related to regulation? And then how can we conceptualize it is kind of what I see with this mutually responsive orientation. But so, okay, slow down, full research brain, pause. We're going to set that on the side. Okay, what does attachment look like? What does this mutually responsive orientation look like in our lives? What is it? What's it look like for you as you think about what we're talking about with the mutually responsive orientation? Do you have any examples or anything?
Lori Korthals:Okay, so I see pictures in my head of different phases of my girl's lives. So when they were little I see me, maybe just like sitting on the couch with them, maybe reading a book, maybe holding on to their stuffed animals, just having a conversation back and forth about them. And then I also see me holding them after they've had a meltdown or a tantrum. And I think that I also see me, you know, being dysregulated and what does that look like? You know, maybe I'm having a meltdown. And essentially really allowing them to see me be authentic and vulnerable. I feel like when it comes to a strong attachment, I've let my girls see me be sad or angry or nervous, scared, happy, excited. All the feelings, right? Yes. I feel like I've not tried to hide any from them as a way to let them know that they also don't have to hide any from me. Does that make sense? Like when it comes to attachment like I'm here for you and you're here for me? Yes, I'm the adult.
Mackenzie Johnson:Yes. Well, and I think I hear kind of two words in what you're describing. One is that you're showing up authentically for your kids.
Lori Korthals:Yes, I try.
Mackenzie Johnson:Yeah, but like this is who I am. Even though that is far from perfect. Not that you're far from perfect. This is who I am. But I also hear you talking about the vulnerability that's involved of like, difficult emotions or
Lori Korthals:And I think that there are periods of their life meltdowns. That's what I hear you saying, I guess. Would you and my life where I was better at being authentic and say that's fair? vulnerable. But I think that when it comes to the little research tidbits that we've shared, I see us together in whatever feelings we are having, we're together. Yeah, they're good feelings, bad feelings, hard feelings, easy feelings. Together, here we are, showing up together for the feeling. All the feelings, all the feelings, all the feelings, here we are. Oh, I love that.
Mackenzie Johnson:I love that. So I guess the first thing that comes to mind when I'm like, mutually responsive orientation, I think of the, well, something I'm trying to do that I don't do all the time, is trying to shift from the it's me against you trying to get you to comply. Trying to shift myself out of that mindset to what's more mutual. Yes. And so trying to think about, this is us together against the problem. How can we problem solve. So that's kind of what I think of, trying to shift that mindset so it can be an orientation or a natural tendency. But for a more specific example, actually, Barb was helping me because I was a little bit stuck. So my daughter recently went to an activity that she hadn't been to before. It was in a different place than we'd ever been before. She was now in an activity, dance, she hadn't done that before. It was kind of a chance to try it out. And some of our usual temperament informed strategies didn't quite work out for reasons that I will not disclose. I was late, and went to the wrong place. But we got there and my daughter was just dysregulated. Right? She was overwhelmed with the feelings that she was having. And I didn't necessarily put my finger on it, but Barb was like, but you were mutually responsive with the strategies that we used once we were there. So you know, staying a little while, staying in her proximity initially, helping her get going in the group, helping her get started while she bungee corded, right, while she had a safe base, a home base to start from. And then it was sitting on the side for a while when she was ready to get up there. And I just kind of sat and went to a place that was further away, but she could still see me and you know, and then eventually, I could leave. I felt like she was solid and that I would be back in an hour to pick her up. Right. And so just like as an example of what it can look like in our lives, and the day to day. I hope that was me showing up for her, you know, you're safe here. I know it doesn't feel like it yet. But I can help you get there. And so that was kind of like a recent one, last weekend.
Lori Korthals:Yeah. Yeah. And I see if that physical proximity that you said, I see us as parents beside our children, next to our children, as opposed to sometimes pushing them forward ahead of us. Strong attachment to me says we're together beside each other, instead of me just pushing you forward and I'll be back here. And there are times that we need that too. But I think that strong attachment you were recognizing, she needed you to be her buffer and be beside her and be close. Instead of push her in the door and running back to the car.
Mackenzie Johnson:Yes. And there are times when that has been our approach and that's gone well. So it's definitely that responsiveness piece of like, what do we need right now? So you feel safe. And the whole point of us, you know, I really had to keep in mind, what is the goal of this activity? The goal of us trying this was, you're trying out something new. We hope you're gonna have fun. And you know what, maybe you're stretching your skills of being somewhere unfamiliar, like that's a goal, too. And so if we keep that goal in mind, what is the responsiveness? Yes, that was needed. So I mean, it wasn't that technical when I was doing it, right.
Lori Korthals:Here I am being responsive. Watch me go.
Mackenzie Johnson:But those are things we do intuitively do with our kids. Why did I decide to approach it this way one time and a different way another? Because you have a strong parental intuition. And so we've leaned into that. So, okay, so mutually responsive orientation, basically, that natural tendency to have a back and forth of showing up for each other with a foundation of a secure attachment. That's a good thing.
Lori Korthals:Awesome. All right, so we're gonna use MRO, mutually responsive orientation, to talk about strategies, correct?
Mackenzie Johnson:So this is the mutually responsive orientation. So that is actually a research construct. So when they're studying attachment, that is one of the things they're specifically looking for like, does this little diad, does this parent child little partner, do they display mutually responsive orientation? And so in order to study that, they have to come up with a way to measure it, right? So they have this little scale, it's basically just like these few things they can look for when they're seeing like, all right, when we're studying this, where is it? So what does that look like, Lori, they have this scale for the mutually responsive orientation.
Lori Korthals:So here's your assignment right now. So I want you to picture you and your child, maybe just one or you can be both, it doesn't matter, but picture them in your head right now together. Maybe doing an activity, could be something familiar. So it's just an easy going kind of place that you're in right now.
Mackenzie Johnson:Okay. I have a visual.
Lori Korthals:Okay. So this is what I want you to think about as you do this activity, be in this place with your child. Yes or no. Do you have some kind of like little coordinated routines, and your routines can look different than everyone else's, but do you have this sense of knowing what comes next? What comes next with this place or activity you're doing? Do you feel like there is harmonious communication?
Mackenzie Johnson:Sometimes.
Lori Korthals:Things are kind of clicking. Yeah.
Mackenzie Johnson:When things are going well, absolutely. I like the word harmonious. And yeah, yeah. I think both of us. It's good. It's peaceful.
Lori Korthals:Alright, here's another one. Yes or no. Do you feel there's like this mutual cooperation? Give and take a little there. Give and take a little here.
Mackenzie Johnson:Yes.
Lori Korthals:And then the fourth kind of measurement is, how about the emotional ambiance? Is there this sense of affection and support? As well as kind of allowing the child to tell you and give you some of their ideas. You might try on those ideas. So this emotional ambiance of, they have something to share with me and I will partake of the sharing. Yes. Yeah. Then I congratulate you of having a positive MRO. Isn't that how this works? Yes, you have a mutually responsive orientation.
Mackenzie Johnson:Well, I like that it's like, okay, we don't want a rigid checklist that is like, oh, you didn't check all boxes so you fail. We're looking at the way that I might see emotional ambiance or the way that I might see harmonious communication can look different than yours. Right? And so it's not a like this or no. It's a how does this look for you? How does this look for you? And so I see that as so helpful as we think about, okay, we want secure attachment regardless of the age of our kids. We know that's going to help them regulate. And so it's like, okay, these are things that we can be looking for and thinking about building into our relationship a little more. Yes, I just love that. I love MRO. You're like, yeah, Mackenzie, we know, you said it 54 times, mutually responsive orientation, I know.
Lori Korthals:Well, maybe we'll see if Barb knows what MROs are because now is the time for our Stop. Breathe. Talk. section of our podcast, where we bring in typically our producer, Mackenzie DeJong, but we're bringing in our writer, Barb Dunn Swanson, this season to share with us some thoughts that she has about regulation, and specifically this episode about attachment and how that interplays with regulate.
Barb Dunn Swanson:Mutually, mutual, mutual. I like this whole idea of attachment and talking about how significant attachment is because our kids are in their safe place. Yeah, I loved when you call that like home base. That is such a great analogy. Because when our kids feel like they can trust us and that we're going to take care of them, we're going to meet their needs, gonna feed them on time. We're gonna make sure they're safe, answer questions that they bring to us. When we do those kinds of things, they continue to build that strong attachment to us. They trust that what we do on a regular basis and that routine that you mentioned. We've done a podcast before on how significant routines are. And even as adults think about how valuable your routine is to your own regulation. So here's what I want to kind of throw out there for consideration today. Okay, I want us to think a little bit about when things do get tough. And the adult is the first one who has to consider a response. You talk about that serve and return, that back and forth communication, or the adult notices there's some type of a dysregulation, something's going on and it starts with the adult. The adult has to help that child figure out how to come back into regulation. So the thing I want to focus on then is what are the skills or strategies that we can use to help those kids know that they're safe with us, realize that it's okay for me to be dysregulated for a time, but it doesn't mean that I am not going to help you to reregulate. What are some skills that you might have had to use with your own kids to help them move toward reregulation?
Mackenzie Johnson:That's a good question.
Barb Dunn Swanson:And I'm going to jump in and say one while you think, okay? One time, Lori, I believe you said, it might not be saying a thing at all. It might be the quiet of just sitting together quietly with no words at all. It lowers the heart rate. And it allows us time to think and doing that Stop. Breathe. Talk. But there are other skills that I think or other techniques we use to help our kids when they're at home base to get reregulated. What would another couple of ideas look like?
Lori Korthals:So I have one for you, Mackenzie.
Mackenzie Johnson:You do?
Lori Korthals:I do.
Mackenzie Johnson:I was being selfish. I wasn't thinking about you.
Lori Korthals:I was like, I can't think of one but I can think of one for you. So when you were, I think you were making dinner and your daughter really needed to be loud. And so you let her be loud out on the step outside. Right? She was dysregulated, you were dysregulated, and you were like, you know what? You you tell the story.
Mackenzie Johnson:Oh, yeah. My daughter was right around two, maybe a little younger than that. And she was just loud. I mean, which I am. And I eventually almost kind of asked her in a fed up way, do you just need to be loud? Like, Do you feel like you have to be loud right now? And she looked at me and was like, yes. I just need to be loud right now. And I was like, Stop. Breathe. Talk. is what that is. And then I said, Okay, I need it quiet right now but you could be loud outside. And it was winter so I was like, should we bundle up and you can yell on the steps? You can get as loud as you want. And so sure enough, she thought that was a great idea. And so she threw on her coat and her hat. And in our home, I could sit on the steps inside and see her on the steps outside. And so I just sat inside and her yelling was outside. And I was, I love it. Which actually leads me to mine if I can jump in before you share. I think something that I do and not always consciously. Part of it might be the age of my kids because they're littler, staying in proximity to my kids when they're dysregulated. And sometimes, you know, my son in particular is like, I want space. I don't want you to help me. I don't want a hug. I want space. And so it's like, okay, you can have that space and I stay available when you are ready. So staying kind of nearby. And so again, part of that might be the supervision of being with children. But I am trying to stay available even when my kids like aren't ready for connection when they're dysregulated. Okay, Lori, I want to hear one for you.
Lori Korthals:So I was thinking, you know, when my
Mackenzie Johnson:I love that. girls were younger, but then I was like, you know what, really honestly, sometimes what I do when they're dysregulated now at this age is I just listen. Like I don't try to fix, I just listen, nod my head, put my phone down, give them some eye contact. And I just listen. I think that is totally a strategy for as they have been older. And then I think a really fun one that I have been known to do is the times that, you know, we just are dysregulated with our energy. I maybe have been known to jump in puddles, run in the rain with them, send them out in the puddles. And I know one summer we were by a lake and it rained and there was a big puddle somewhere. And I took my nieces and nephews. And we all went and jumped in the puddle. We had been inside in the cabin all together while it rained. And the rest of the adults were like, okay, this is driving us crazy. And I was like, let's go jump in puddles. And the children were like, we're gonna go jump in puddles? And I was like, yes, yes, we are going to jump in puddles. So those kinds of things. Yes.
Barb Dunn Swanson:Those are some great examples. And what they are, they're examples of the fact that we are going to have opportunities to regulate together. You know, I talk about, we don't expect kids to have to know how to do this by themselves, that we're going to give them opportunities to co-regulate. We'll work with you as you start to reregulate as you start to think about how you want to behave or how you want to communicate and speak. Because when we're dysregulated, things might not come out sounding nice. They might come out kind of mean.
Mackenzie Johnson:I've been there.
Barb Dunn Swanson:But we want you to get reregulated and we'll help you get there. That's what homebase is all about, isn't it? And we've also talked about aligning. What you gave as examples to me sounds a lot like aligning with your kids. I can see where you're at. And I'm willing to give you the space you need. I would feel similarly if I were disappointed or if something, you know, in my routine got upset. I would feel the same way. Let's just, you know, take some time to calm down and get reregulated.
Lori Korthals:Yes, yes.
Barb Dunn Swanson:Well, thank you for thinking through those. I know people really just come on here and they maybe just want a new skill, a new strategy, and sometimes to hear what other people have done is just what they need to hear.
Lori Korthals:Or what not to do. Yeah.
Mackenzie Johnson:But I think you bring in a great point about attachment, Barb, is the attachment is the ongoing relationship, right? It is when we're dysregulated. It is like even when we're creating a home base, that's a secure attachment or a foundation of that relationship. That doesn't mean we're never dysregulated. Right? It just means different skills, right? Yeah, we have secure attachment, we can have more skills to tap into, but still gotta teach them.
Barb Dunn Swanson:We're not gonna know. They're not going to know it without us being involved with them.
Lori Korthals:Yes.
Mackenzie Johnson:Yes. Awesome. Thanks so much, Barb.
Barb Dunn Swanson:You are welcome.
Lori Korthals:Thank you.
Mackenzie Johnson:Yes. So, you know, we're talking about attachment. And she makes such a great point. I'm so glad, I always think that like, Oh, I'm so glad we didn't get through the episode without saying that. Or making that point that yes, attachment is happening in the difficult moments and the ones that take your breath away, and the ones that take your volume up, and everywhere in between. And so we have that home base, that secure attachment gives our kids to explore both their environment and to explore their own emotional regulation. What works well for them? Yeah, because we do provide kind of that safe place. So attachments are a great way to encourage regulation in our kids.
Lori Korthals:And yes, so next week, we're wrapping up, right?
Mackenzie Johnson:Yes, we're gonna do some final sense-making of everything we've talked through this season, and you know how I kept saying, it connects but we'll piece those all together.
Lori Korthals:Excellent. So thanks for joining us today on The Science of Parenting podcast. And remember, if you're a regular listener, you can actually watch us on video as well. And sometimes Mackenzie DeJong puts in some, you know, visual aids and so find us on our social media and look for those videos as well.
Mackenzie Johnson:Yes, please do come along with us as we tackle the ups and downs, the ins and outs, and the research and reality all around The Science of Parenting.
Anthony Santiago:The Science of Parenting is hosted by Lori Korthals and Mackenzie Johnson, produced by Mackenzie DeJong, with research and writing by Barbara Dunn Swanson. Send in questions and comments to parenting@iastate.edu and connect with us on Facebook and Twitter. This institution is an equal opportunity provider. For the full non-discrimination statement or accommodation inquiries go to www.extension.iastate.edu/diversity/ext.