If you're dealing with picky eating, you know the struggle is real. But you might be asking “Why?” and “What can I do?”. Get research-based answers and reality-centered solutions to both of those questions in today’s episode!
Send us an email: parenting@iastate.edu.
Find us on Facebook: @scienceofparent.
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If you're dealing with picky eating, you know the struggle is real. But you might be asking “Why?” and “What can I do?”. Get research-based answers and reality-centered solutions to both of those questions in today’s episode!
Send us an email: parenting@iastate.edu.
Find us on Facebook: @scienceofparent.
This institution is an equal opportunity provider. For the full non-discrimination statement or accommodation inquiries, go to www.extension.iastate.edu/diversity/ext
Welcome to The Science of Parenting podcast where we connect you with research based information that fits your family. We'll talk about the realities of being a parent and how research can help guide our parenting decisions. I'm Mackenzie Johnson, parent of two littles with their own quirks. And I'm a parenting educator.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:And I'm Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt, a Professor of Human Nutrition, guest co-host, and a mom to one sweet angel baby and one young happy eater.
Mackenzie DeJong:And I'm Mackenzie DeJong, a parenting educator and the resident picky eater.
Mackenzie Johnson:We love we're gonna have a resident picky eater while we talk about picky eating. That just only is right. Yes. So we are excited. Mackenzie just kind of give us a little insight because today, we're talking about picky eating.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Yeah. Finally.
Mackenzie Johnson:I was like, finally, and like, the question, right? Which I feel like it's THE question related to kids and food. Would you agree?
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Oh, yes. 100%. Yeah.
Mackenzie Johnson:Like, why? What do I do?
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:One of those things if you start to Google, which you shouldn't, but if you start to google kids and kids' eating, and it's probably kids' eating and picky eating.
Mackenzie Johnson:Yeah, kids not eating and picky eating. Okay, so we have a definition. And actually, Mackenzie, I kind of feel like I need your approval. Does this track? Does this track? By definition, actually, the Healthy Eating research report says there's not a total agreement. But in general, a formal definition of picky eating, also called food fussiness, which I like an alliteration. The most common accepted definition, a rejection of a substantial amount of foods that are familiar or unfamiliar.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Does that sound familiar to some parents?
Mackenzie Johnson:Yeah, listeners and Mackenzie.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Yeah, but more specifically, when we do talk about picky eating, we can really put it into three specific characteristics. So the first of that is, and it's gonna be very familiar to some parents, is consuming a limited variety and amount of foods. So that's number one. Number two, so I'm going to see a lot
Mackenzie Johnson:We're getting nods from Mackenzie DeJong. of agreement from Mackenzie I think, is rejecting foods based on certain sensory characteristics. And then often requiring the preparation or presentation of meals in a very particular way.
Mackenzie DeJong:Sensory is huge for me, so yes, yes.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:And then number three, is just the unwillingness to try new foods and that's called food neophobia.
Mackenzie DeJong:Also, probably fair, yeah.
Mackenzie Johnson:Well, I'll say as we think about the sensory and yeah, the fear of new foods. Like there are certain sensory things for you, right? It's not like, oh, any sensory food. No, no, you have certain ones, right?
Mackenzie DeJong:That's sticky or slimy or stringy.
Mackenzie Johnson:I don't know if I've heard you say stringy before.
Mackenzie DeJong:Like oranges, they're stringy. I'll do like juice but the stringy, I can't do that. Let's see what else is on that list of three. Appearance, aroma, texture. Yeah, that appearance is yes and no, but usually, the texture, sometimes the flavor, I have zero spice tolerance, zero. Like, I used to think pepper was spicy. So that would probably be the that one. Yeah, sensory.
Mackenzie Johnson:I have a family member tomatoes. Tomatoes were too spicy. Yeah, that was new for me. That was actually in the family I'm married into. And so yeah, there's different levels of picky eating. And I think that's kind of what they talked about too,Lyndi, right? There's a continuum, right, that there might be some selectiveness versus like a more extreme like, absolutely not willing to try new foods, right?
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Yeah, definitely. And I mean, all picky eating is based off of a lot of different factors, like a different a lot of things contribute to it. So one thing we've talked about is temperament. Temperament is one of those factors, right? If you listen more, if you listen to the temperament episode, you might hear more about it, but there's the genetic component to it. So that's something we've talked about before in different episodes as well. So when we're born, we're predisposed to like sweet flavors. We're attracted to that and we try to avoid bitter flavors, because again, that's food typically that we want to avoid, it could be poisonous. So that influences our picky eating as well. And then there's also what our caregivers are doing. So like if your parent doesn't like to try new foods or they have a dire dietary restriction or they don't have the food in their house because they don't like it. Those are all things that influence picky eating.
Mackenzie Johnson:So what about you, Kenz? Okay, we talked about
Mackenzie DeJong:You know, and a lot of these are so far back the definition. Yep, that tracks, we learned a new word. I like that word, food neophobia. But yeah, thinking about what contributes, what do you say? that I'm like, I don't honestly know a lot of them. One thing and I'll totally call my sister out on this is that, I don't like gum and she would always like torture me with it because she's my sister.
Mackenzie Johnson:Siblings are sibling things. Yeah.
Mackenzie DeJong:I feel like that made some of them worse. But honestly, I don't really know what it was growing up that made me such a picky eater.
Mackenzie Johnson:Obviously, I'm like temperament, as we've obviously talked about, but it's fun that I feel like we kind of lie on not totally extremes, but on different sides. I'm like, yeah, adventurous eating, high approach, high adaptability. Let's go. You're like, no, thank you.
Mackenzie DeJong:I know, we've talked about menus, right? You're like, I want to try something new and different. Novelty. I'm like your husband and I'm going to this restaurant and this is what I'm ordering. If I'm going to there, I'm getting this sandwich. If I'm going there, I'm getting this wrap. If I'm going there, that pizza like, Nope, that's it.
Mackenzie Johnson:And I think I've told you this story before of when my husband first kind of started going out to eat with my family, he would just always order chicken strips, like chicken strips with fries. And I was like, you're the worst. Why are you doing that? And my family, we would tease him about it. And then years later, I've learned, you know, maybe teasing is not so nice. But also, it was like for his temperament like it was also foods or restaurants maybe he wasn't used to, right? It was like a new place, new scenery, new menu, new people. And I just want something familiar, right? Like, I want something that I know is going to fill me up. And I like to refer to my husband as a reformed picky eater. He's gotten more curious about food. And yeah, but it makes sense when you think about the temperament component and that was the family I married into, that would be his family. Right? That there's like generations of picky eating and not like selective, I don't even like to say picky eating. Selective. There were selective about what they ate. And that's okay.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:I think the important part that we should reiterate to parents listening on this is, Mackenzie, you're still kind of a picky eater, right? So today, we're going to talk about tools to help your children overcome that picky eating, because like you said, your husband's a reformed, picky, selective eater, and I think my mom is one of those, too. She has come to understand the importance of as I think, Mackenzie DeJong, you'll talk about, like the importance of different flavors. But we also want to talk about what strategies to use to help our kids overcome this now, so we don't have to worry about them becoming a reformed eater as an adult.
Mackenzie DeJong:I will not claim to be reformed, I think, in progress.
Mackenzie Johnson:I was gonna use the exact same term, you're in progress. Journey.
Mackenzie DeJong:There's probably examples that I use, and I might come back around and say, Okay, I'm gonna work on but yeah, there's definitely things there that I'm not reformed yet. I will say, Kenz, I am going to use the note of chicken strips. And I'm going to come back to that in one of the points in the future. All right. Now I'm gonna leave and let you guys discuss and I'll pop back in a little bit.
Mackenzie Johnson:Okay, we'll see what we hear from her later. Maybe she just doesn't want to hear us as we're talking about the impact if perhaps, there is some literature around that, right? Like, I mean, one of the things that we saw that I read about in that healthy eating research report was that kids with picky eating tendencies, I'm trying not to call them picky eaters. I feel like that's not positive language. It's not person first language. Children who have picky eating tendencies. I'm in progress on that. They tend to have lower intakes of vegetables. There might be some micronutrients like iron and zinc that they don't get quite enough of, and that they can also be low in fiber. But there's good news on that flip side, right?
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:50% or more kids go through this picky eating phase and it's typically between the ages of two and nine. So I think some of it is we're gonna have to bear through it, but then persevere, persevere through this time. But I think a couple of things will hopefully give you hope. So one is that picky eating does not have a consistent association with weight status and growth. So if you're finding this is a struggle, and you're worried about how much your kids are actually eating, picky eaters or people who eat picky, you don't need to be necessarily worried about shoving food down their throat so don't worry about those short term consequences. But you know, I think what we want to get through to you and affirm this episode today is there are really strategies that cannot only help you overcome this food selectivity, these issues with eating, but we can really support during this time growth in eating a variety of different foods and participating in those behaviors we want our kids to to do to help them become healthy, independent eaters. So this is not a time where it's not only focused on making sure they get food, but also offering a lot of strategies to make sure they get the variety and type of food that you want to see them eat.
Mackenzie Johnson:Absolutely. And I'm actually kind of surprised that Mackenzie did not come sprinting back in to be the devil's advocate. It's what she's really good at. She's an excellent devil's advocate.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:I bet, I bet.
Mackenzie Johnson:But Okay, well, then why worry about it if it doesn't affect their weight status or their development? Like, okay, why worry about it? Right, that's like a question she poses. And like you're saying, it's about establishing a foundation. It's about the lifetime. And the human development person in me can't not say, we know that older adults, right, that their health issues tend to come with age, because our age is really a compounding of our previous life experience. So yeah, when they're in this temporary stage from ages three to nine, there's not a consistent association with their growth and development. But if you are 68, and you've never eaten the green vegetable, or you've never been consistently taking enough of this certain vitamin, there are health implications of that. So we're like long term, right? We're gonna play the long game. Yes, we're gonna play the long game and we're gonna work towards a variety with all kinds of wonderful strategies that Lyndi is going to share with us.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Oh, yes, yeah. And these are all these strategies we've talked about, I feel like, in detail in other episodes as well, but we're just going to bring background and specifically talk about how we can use them for kids who are selective eaters.
Mackenzie Johnson:So I was like, what's the goal? We're going to increase food acceptance. Yes. Right. Like not picky eating? No, no, we're gonna flip that phrasing. How can we increase food acceptance? Well, one of the big things and you've talked about it before, is the environment and like the structure we offer around food, right?
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Yes, yeah. So again, kind of going back to those food parenting practices. One of those is providing structure and helping, you know, create this positive food environment. So one of the first things again, that I will repeat even though I've repeated again and again, is we need to provide repeated exposures to new foods. So this is the most simple and effective strategy that literature shows us again and again, promotes liking and intake of healthy foods among young kids. And often I think, understandably, parents offer food one time and are like, Oh, my kid didn't like it, I'm not going to waste the time preparing it, offering it and watching them reject it. But again, it can take 15 or more times of introducing a food to a kid to get them to like the food. I think actually, the Healthy Eating Report talks about one study that cited, it might take as many as 27 exposures.
Mackenzie Johnson:In extreme cases. But I also want to normalize, let's acknowledge for a second, if you have a picky eater, and you're listening to this episode, maybe you've been listening all season. If you haven't, you can go back and listen if you want. But like repeated foods, that sounds exhausting. It sounds exhausting, and frustrating to offer foods that I know my kids won't eat. And let's acknowledge that reality, that it's not as simple as like, we'll just do it. No, there are other components that feed into that decision. And it's the most effective, that's the most effective strategy we have for increasing the likelihood that they will accept that food in the future. So like, I just want you to take a pause, take a moment to acknowledge and it can also be anxiety inducing as a parent. Okay, the research tells me this will not affect their weight status. It should not affect their growth and development because this is a temporary period. Right? This is not the rest of their life, because we have all these strategies to help them become reformed picky eaters. But I do think that's worth acknowledging in the midst of it. It can be hard, and it's the most effective strategy we have.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Yes, and there's ways to pair it with other things so you don't maybe have to be as worried about it. I mean, yes, we will continue on talking about this. But to kind of wrap up this repeated exposures, I will say, you know, a lot of parents out there, maybe one of them are concerned about food waste, like, I don't want to waste food because it's money down the garbage disposal or in the compost bin or in the garbage. But it's also, I don't want to contribute to this massive amount of food waste in our society overall. So make sure if you are, you know, offering that food, provide it in smaller portions. Kids need smaller portions anyways, they don't eat as much as adults, but providing a smaller portion. And if you are cooking the same meal for your kids that you are for yourself, which you should be doing, then
Mackenzie Johnson:Which is the ideal. That's the preferred.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:That's the preferred, yes, sorry, well, maybe should is not the right word, but we're showing but yes, that is the preferred way to do it is that that food will hopefully then not go to waste.
Mackenzie Johnson:Yes. And yes, I've literally seen people that I follow on Instagram that are like parenting and feeding experts, like a literal fork, like one single bite is the serving on your plate. And that's progress. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's food exposure. That is food exposure. Yeah. And so that's not overwhelming to a child, right, to see, okay, one bite, not a heap.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:One. Yes, yeah. And that's all part of another tip, which is creating a pleasant mealtime environment. So then one of those things is using appropriate size tools for your kids to eat with, using the right size plate, but it's also having a positive mealtime environment. So talking about the food you're eating, where it comes from. And then also, I know this can be a struggle, but eliminating distractions, so turning off music, turning off cell phone, turning off TV, those kinds of things. So you can make it this environment where you guys can talk about the food, what you're eating, and all of those wonderful things.
Mackenzie Johnson:Absolutely. And again, as a general practice, not as in every single night, we do it this way and we do it right. As a general practice, the general experience of my children is a pleasant meal time at the table where we're sharing the same food, even if I love the asparagus and they're not fans.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Yes. I mean, and pleasant is, you know, take with what you will with that. Yeah, I mean, obviously, it's not always going to be pleasant turning off the TV or the cell phones or all that. It doesn't always obviously lead to like, we're gonna have a wonderful meal conversation today. But trying to foster that environment is the best practice.
Mackenzie Johnson:Well, and I do think about what can our general family practice be to help make it more pleasant. And I think back to that division of responsibility. That I feel like has been a big contributor for me, that it's not a negative experience because I'm not fighting you about, just eat it, just have that bite. Because I'm not doing that, I can have a more pleasant experience, even if you ate exactly zero bites of the new food, because it was my job to serve it. And it's your job to decide whether and how much.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Exactly, yes, and hopefully, if you keep exposing them to it, at one point, they will make the choice to eat it.
Mackenzie Johnson:And it'll be pleasant when they eat it on their own. That'll be exciting for me.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Yeah. Yeah. So I think the last tip in this environment one is, you know, offering a variety of foods at different meals. So like, obviously snacks and your actual meals, offer fruits and vegetables at those. That is an opportunity in that time to have that repeated exposure. And then the last tip, specifically around kind of going back to that mealtime environment, but looking at your table arrangement. So one tip that I think it's good to talk about is seat your non-choosy eater, a person who will maybe eat anything, next to your more choosy eater, that selective eater, so that they're modeling that positive behavior.
Mackenzie Johnson:The peer modeling is happening, it can happen in your own house in a positive way.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Yes, exactly.
Mackenzie Johnson:We love that. Okay, so in addition to offering structure, another helpful food parenting practice is that idea of autonomy or encouraging choice, right, healthy independent eaters. And that can help them accept more nutrient dense, healthful foods. Oh, yes, yeah. Yeah. Lots of strategies within that. It's like, how do we provide autonomy? We'll tell you.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:We'll tell you and one of them is kind of just coming out that last strategy is model for kids how delicious food can be. Kids are going to be quicker to try new food if you're showing that you accept it. If you're showing that you enjoy it and also the other people around them at the table.
Mackenzie Johnson:Absolutely. And then there's some that, you know, we've talked about all season that we've heard you say, you know, talking about offering positive reinforcement in the form of praise and connection of like, wow, you were really curious about that. That was fun for me to see, or that's an interesting combination. And doing non-food rewards when we think about reinforcement. We don't want to reinforce the bad food because it's the reward you get. It's the dessert and you have to suffer through this other thing. So we avoid the non-food rewards. And instead, we can offer praise and connection as a form of positive reinforcement. You've talked about that last all season. And then another one you've talked about is encouraging kids to explore new foods using a variety of senses. And so, you know, we've talked about in terms of taste, but even having it on your plate, a willingness to have it on your plate. That's progress from, eww no, get that away from me. And then, oh, you sniffed it, right? What's it smell like? Right? The curiosity. And so there's other ways to explore food. You're not necessarily, again, food waste, it doesn't have to be this big messy plate thing. It can be, but also just considering sniffing it. That's progress. They were at least willing to try that. Yeah. So our senses are a good tool.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:They are a great tool. And I think this is something often hard for parents to get over, at least maybe Type A parents like me who want a clean home, and you're also worried about your children's manners at the table. But some of this, the sensory things might be hard, right? Where kids are touching with their hands their food, or they're smelling their food like that. In a lot of situations it might be considered not polite, right? But yeah, normalize it, okay, this is a way for them to familiarize themselves with this food. And even for me, we just got a new dining room table and one of the top things for me when I was looking to get new chairs was I need them to be easily cleanable because I know that they're gonna get dirty because food's gonna get on them from tasting or touching food and probably throwing it.
Mackenzie Johnson:Yeah, see, and we have a set of dining chairs or like our dining room chairs which is really the chairs at the table, the only one we have. I got them like on like a swap. They're thrifted. And then I was like, Hey, I'm craftyish. And I put on this new fabric but I made a bad choice. It was a light color and my kids are messy eaters. That is the case. But so yeah, okay, that happens. That is what it is. Someday I'll have chairs that won't be like that. Today is not the day.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:I don't know. Maybe they're part of your child's artwork.
Mackenzie Johnson:Right, right. Like I'll put them up on the wall thrifting, reused. To be like a memoir, or what is it, a momento to my children are these disgusting chair covers. Okay, anyway, autonomy, food, what about that? One you've talked about a couple different times is pairing foods together, right, an unfamiliar food with a familiar food. Oh, Mackenzie, Mackenzie DeJong has things to say. She has come back on screen.
Mackenzie DeJong:Explain it and then I will give examples for this one.
Mackenzie Johnson:Okay. So one strategy we've heard Lyndi share is like flavor flavor, right? Like a familiar dip with an unfamiliar food or flavor nutrient, like this food that you maybe don't love, right? Carrots. This is the purpose it serves on our bodies, right? Like carrots have the types of things that we need for our eyes. That's important. So there's a few strategies for pairing things together. What have you got, Kenz?
Mackenzie DeJong:As we were talking through this, I thought I feel like I kind of went flavor flavor flavor. I, regrettably now, did not like ranch dressing. Because it was sticky, icky. That's one of those things that I'm sensitive about. Well, I started kind of being like, everybody likes ranch. Right? I got to try it. Well, we're from the Midwest. So everybody in the midwest likes ranch, right? Okay, I'm going to try it with like you said, the chicken strips. So I'm going to try it with things that I like - chicken strips. And then maybe I get like, a chicken ranch wrap. Because that's like the familiar. You still have like the chicken strips, basically, inside wrap with ranch. And then you start to get a little bit of lettuce in there. Right? So incorporate some of those things, but really, I didn't eat salad until I was in college. Yeah, I had tried it a couple of times, gagged, and I was done. But what I realized was, I was trying it straight as just like lettuce. I was not the other things.
Mackenzie Johnson:No flavor flavor.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:No flavor, no flavor bridge. There was nothing for you to like.
Mackenzie DeJong:So once I started to like ranch dressing, and I realized I could make a salad starting off with croutons and cheese and, you know, the good stuff with things like, right, I started eating salad and guess what? I have a salad for supper waiting for me down in the refrigerator. So I hope that pairing of flavors times what you have for the picky eater is mostly the thing that they like, just a little bit of the other thing and maybe over time it'll transform into a portion of it. Yeah. That's my flavor flavor example. Yes.
Mackenzie Johnson:Yes, I love that.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Now we know what you're having for dinner.
Mackenzie Johnson:Good. Good, actually, funny enough. We are also having salad for my family tonight. That's one of our side dishes. But yeah, I love that of in reality, it was a process. Like you said, it's progress along the way. And I think as parents sometimes we're so caught up and like they only want to eat mac and cheese. And it's okay. This time, there was bread crumbs on the mac and cheese. That was new. Yeah, that's progress.
Mackenzie DeJong:The other thing is, I'm 30 and still working on it. So even if your kids aren't little anymore, there's still a chance that they'll grow and develop to like these things. It's really I feel like the exposure and that pairing.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Thank you for sharing your own story. That was good to hear it in practice. Yeah. Yes.
Mackenzie Johnson:Yeah. Awesome. Thanks, Kenz. We'll see if you jump. Are you gonna jump in on us any other times?
Mackenzie DeJong:I don't know. There's another one coming up. So I might just sit here and listen.
Mackenzie Johnson:Well, Lyndi, I believe you have a few more strategies here for encouraging food autonomy and food acceptance.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:So what we talked about a lot throughout our different episodes is including kids in food preparation. So this could be things from growing, so having them garden with you, choosing so going to the actual grocery store and having them pick food with you, preparing, having them at the counter with their own appropriate tools to prepare food with and then serving food at home and also in the school setting. So this is going to be obviously, obviously one strategy to help create that autonomy, build that competence and help them really, you know, learn why they're eating what they're eating.
Mackenzie Johnson:And I like the different stages we're talking about, right, like growing food, cleaning food, preparing food. Those are all different parts they can be associated with. I think often parents are like, I don't want to cook with them at the stove. Right? Or I feel like my child's a little too impulsive still for the variety of steps that can be involved in.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Yes, 100%. Yeah.
Mackenzie Johnson:And a lot of benefit for doing that. Right.
Mackenzie DeJong:I was just gonna say my nephew offered to Oh, sorry. make me an omelet the other day, and I don't even make an omelet. And there's a lot of great benefits to it too, right? So he's clearly been involved in that.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Oh, yeah. Yep, again, like I said, it really helps provide that and helps them build that confidence and feel important and proud. So, you know, again, building that autonomy. And then some of the things that we have talked about in other episodes, it helps with math learning and science learning and things like that. And just learning new vocabulary in general. It's an opportune time to talk to your kids, just talk to your kids, but then to use new vocabulary as well.
Mackenzie Johnson:And we always say when we talk about getting teens to talk, right, being in the same vicinity, but not directly looking at each other. We talked about the magic of riding in the car together, or going on a walk. Cooking is another opportunity where you don't have to be staring into each other's faces while you talk about something. Like I can be chopping and you can be stirring, and another really great opportunity there. Yes. Well, and one more that I don't feel like we've really touched on yet this season, is the idea of kind of getting creative with foods in positive ways. You know, positive ways to offer it, positive ways to talk about it. I mean, just a few examples I think of, think about being humorous, playful, silly when it comes to food. Like making up a name for this food, like dragon bites or talking about a familiar character. Right? Like, you know what, so and so really loves broccoli, right, from a favorite show. This is so silly but I'll cover my eyes, and I'll be like, I wonder which bite you're going to eat next. Are you gonna have a drink of milk? Are you going to eat the meat? Are you going to eat the vegetable? I'm gonna close my eyes. I'm not gonna see. And then I'm gonna guess. I think you ate the vegetable. Like no, I had milk. It's just a way to kind of get us eating that's just playful. You know? Especially with my distractible children like getting them back on track, back towards the food. And you know, even things like, I mean my kids are little, your teens might not be so into this. But how would a bear eat this? How would a lion? How would a squirrel? How would a snake? And again, the whole idea of a positive environment but in a way they're still in charge of whether or not they take a bite or how big of a bite or what they take a bite of. We're still providing autonomy but we're having playfulness and encouraging that eating of these new foods.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Yeah, those taste testing games have been proven to be really effective. Like saying, let's talk, let's rate these foods. So I think a really good example is bell peppers that come in all different colors. So having plates of different color bell peppers, and you know, including hummus or ranch or something on the plate, if they want that flavor combo, but then rating, which of these peppers is the best or talking about, well, what does this color tastes like versus that color? Or other strategies are making food more appealing. We all like appealing food that looks good, right? I mean, that's a big thing. So like cutting food into different shapes using cookie cutters to, you know, cut it in the shape of their favorite cartoon or something.
Mackenzie Johnson:I also think of when people set up their salad really like aestheticly. I feel like as a teen right, you can be the one plating our food right? Or, right. like you can make this is social media worthy. Yeah, definitely.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Yeah. Like, oh, I put that on. Yep, I would take that picture and put it on social media. Kids appreciate those types of things, too.
Mackenzie DeJong:So one of the things that I think of, a class that we do is called Growing Up Wild. It's for childcare providers. Every page with every lesson plan, they have a snack that comes with it. That is super fun, they're all super fun. But a couple that come to the mind of play, and not really playing with your food. Right. But like ants on a log. So that would get me. I would, you know, be into it for the peanut butter. I'd try it for the celery and for the raisons but it's good exposure. Right? It's fun. There's ants on a log. One Mackenzie had mentioned that I was like, oh, yeah, that's a really good one. They're called track crackers. Basically use any sort of tracker and make it using like peanut butter, cream cheese, or whatever.
Mackenzie Johnson:Hummus, French onion dip.
Mackenzie DeJong:Yeah, make like a dirt layer on top. And put say chow mein noodles or little carrot stick pieces or whatever you really drum up, right? That you stick them on there, I wish I had an example. On there like a bird stepped there or like a mountain lion. They're gonna like look at my track cracker.
Mackenzie Johnson:And it's great because I feel like crackers, right crackers, they're an appealing texture. They're consistent every time. As we think about picky eaters, crackers are typically not what they're saying are off limits for them. Right? Like crackers are safe. That's a generalization, there could be exceptions to that. But so it's also, yeah, you're pairing a familiar likable cracker with maybe that new dip and some novelty and excitement and fun. I love that.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:That's a lot of strategies. And one that is amazing. Yes. So I'm gonna leave you with one last strategy for parents that I think is a really important one because I am sure this is an easy trap to fall into, because I could see myself doing this. But I encourage you not to become a short order cook. So studies show that 70% of parents of toddlers get up from the table and make an alternative when the toddler refuses the first offering of that food.
Mackenzie Johnson:70%, that's a lot.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Yeah, that's a lot and I can see why. I think I would fall into this. I think I would potentially do this. But resist the temptation to prepare special meals for that picky eater. The tip that I will provide you because obviously you do want them to eat food is offer the same foods to everybody but try to at least have one thing that you know that child is going to like on the table.
Mackenzie Johnson:Yes. Tonight along with our salad we are having tortellini, which my daughter does not like and I love so I bought a salad kit that I'm like, you've had this one before and you like this one. And we're having like a canned fruit that she likes, mandarin oranges. And so that was like my safe spot. You don't like tortellini but you like mandarin oranges. You like the meat that we typically have even if you don't like tortellini.
Mackenzie DeJong:I want you to do a flavor flavor with the tortellini and tell her to dip it in whatever she wants.
Mackenzie Johnson:Okay, yeah, there is ranch in the fridge. So there's also ketchup. I'm gonna have pesto, I think. I'll skip the ketchup on my tortellini.
Mackenzie DeJong:Give her something she likes.
Mackenzie Johnson:But I do think you're right, Lyndi, that it's tempting, especially because it is exhausting to prepare food and then your kids don't eat it. And especially if it's natural to feel concerned like well, I don't want him to not eat anything. Remembering not to become a short order cook, that's a good tip.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:It's a hard one. So again, just have that. I think Mackenzie, your example was so amazing. And thank you for doing this. But yeah, having those foods, you thought about it. Obviously, you prepare that ahead of time. You thought in your head, this is what she's gonna like, she's not gonna like this, but she's gonna like this. So there will be food on the table, she will eat.
Mackenzie Johnson:In fairness, as we were talking through this episode, Mackenzie DeJong was talking about examples from that class. And there's like a camouflage one where we make a salad but then put peas in it. It's this idea of camouflage. It's hidden in there.
Mackenzie DeJong:Like a little caterpillar in there.
Mackenzie Johnson:Right? And one of my kids does not like peas. And I'm like, you know, I've kind of just accepted that one. I've just been like, yep, peas, you don't like it. And I'm like, oof. I don't know that I've done repeated exposure. So in case you were like, oh, my gosh, what a wonderful role model she is. I'm also like, and I have lots of areas for improvement because peas have not been repeatedly served. We've got to do that. I'm gonna do that.
Mackenzie DeJong:And they're better with ranch, so.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:That is a very subjective thing. I do not think they're better with ranch.
Mackenzie Johnson:I do like my peas. This was like the meal in high school. We talked about teens before. A box of mac and cheese, right, box mac and cheese, frozen peas. Like they're not frozen when you cook them, but I don't want canned ones. I want frozen ones. And like a hotdog or a sausage all in one bowl. That was like the meal in high school and college. I do like peas. But that's how I prefer to have them.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:No.
Mackenzie DeJong:All right, out again and let you go to the next section.
Mackenzie Johnson:Okay, I'll say and we do have, we walked through all these strategies, lots of which you've heard us say throughout the season. We wanted to reinforce, these strategies are also effective with picky eating. They are, yes. I almost said, did I say picky eaters? No, with the practice or the behavior of picky eating. They are effective, which is one of the reasons for the recommendations knowing that most kids or at least half will go through this kind of picky eating phase. These strategies are effective.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:How about we say low food acceptance. I feel like I'm getting towards this at the end of the episode, but low food acceptance.
Mackenzie Johnson:But we're getting there. Yeah, when a child has low food acceptance, I like that. It's like how we were flipping, we're trying to flip from unhealthy to less nutrient dense, right? It's not about whether it's healthy, because that's all relative. It's like we were talking about nutrient dense foods. Okay, new language, language is good. We're getting this. And speaking of language. Right. In addition to all the strategies we were talking about, Lyndi actually brought us this resource from the University of Idaho, from Dr. Fletcher and Dr. Brennan at University of Idaho, that's basically talking about some ways we talk about food, particularly talk about low food acceptance, whether a phrase we're using is hindering our kids' food acceptance, or whether it can help them increase their food acceptance. So we kind of want to do this, like flip the switch game of like, was this helpful? Or how can we make it more helpful? So, okay, I will say the less helpful and kind of give you a little bit of reasoning why it's not so helpful. And Lyndi will give us an alternative of what we could say instead. Yeah, ready? Perfect. Let's do it. Let's do it. Okay, so instead of something like, oh, please just eat that for me. Or if you don't eat that, I'm gonna be mad, right. So that's phrases we might say, But what these phrases really teach is that they should eat in order to get your love and approval, right, which is not why we eat. So this can lead them to kind of have unhealthy behaviors. They're not listening to themselves about hunger and food. So instead, we might say something like,
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Yeah, so we want to use phrases that point out the sensory qualities. Again, so we talk about a food and encourage your child to try the new food. So something you might want say is like, this is kiwi fruit. It's sweet, like a strawberry or these radishes are very crunchy. So you know, talking to your child and giving those sensory qualities.
Mackenzie Johnson:Yes, instead of making it, I want you to try this for me, well, these are things you could notice about them that might encourage it. Love that. Okay, another one. Phrases like, you're such a big girl, you're such a good eater because you ate all your peas, right? Or, like, did you see your sister, she did a good job, she ate all of her plate, or all of her banana. You know, even another one, like, I need you to take one more bite before you leave this table. You cannot leave this table until you have at least one bite. So all of those phrases really teach our kids to ignore their fullness. Right? That should really be the cue of when kids eat is related to their hunger and when they stop eating should be related to their fullness. And if we're talking about well, you need to be like so and so or what should decide is whether or not you finished your plate or finished your serving that teaches them to ignore that hunger and that fullness, which should be what drives their eating. So instead, we could say things like
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:So instead you want to help your child recognize when he or she is full and help prevent overeating by saying things like, is your stomach telling you that you're full? Or is your stomach still making that growling noise? Or has your tummy had enough? Those kinds of things.
Mackenzie Johnson:And I was and I'm like, okay, yes, I am feeling good about that one. Because this next one I'm not feeling so good about. I feel like we practice more of the, are you feeling full or are you still hungry? This one I feel like I can work on. So if your child is refusing a food, right? Like they don't want to try that. And finally if they relent, or maybe it's like the first time they try it after a super long time. Right? That repeated exposure. They finally try it and saying something like, see, that wasn't so bad, was it? I would usually say it to shame. Like, see, that wasn't so bad. I'm not trying necessarily to prove that I'm right. But more I've seen it as positive reinforcement. But it can come off as like shamey. Right? Like, well, good thing you ate it because I was right about how good it was. Right? It's like, oh, yeah, that's probably not the most helpful. I can rethink with some different phrases, right?
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Yes, yeah. Yeah. Again, this kind of gets back to letting your child feel like they're making their own decisions or an independent eater. They have autonomy. So shifting the focus toward the taste of food, rather than who was right and what you're eating. So try saying things like, do you like that? Or which one is your favorite? Everybody likes different foods, don't they?
Mackenzie Johnson:And I do I think about in conversations where I've maybe said, see, it wasn't so bad. Yeah, it can reinforce the power struggle of like, I want you to try this, and you didn't want to and I win. And, oh, that's not the goal. The goal is not for me to win, even though I have to tamper down, that is an instinct I have. I'm gonna tamper down that instinct to yeah, like, so what did you think? And if your child says, I like it, I liked it. And I'm like, that's awesome. You tried a new food and you liked it. I can still get at the idea of trying the new thing was good. Like, it wasn't as bad as you thought without being, see, it wasn't so bad. I was right. Yeah, I'm working on flipping that one, that one I'm gonna work on. And then we have one more here, which we have talked a little bit about phrases or ideas like, no dessert until you eat your vegetables. Or if you stop crying, I will give you a cookie. Or if you stop crying, I will get you those chips. Or think of that in the places where we access our food, right? So if you're at the food pantry, the gas station or the grocery store, if you stop I will this. And of course, those are examples of using food as a reward for behavior. You know, and again, it can kind of villainize the vegetables, the thing I have to tolerate, so that I can get to the good stuff. And we're not trying to promote this.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:use rewards, but use nonfood rewards. So you could do things like just giving your child attention and kind words like that positive reinforcement through your words. Showing them love, giving them hugs and kisses, spending time with them. So the phrases you could try to use are like, we can try vegetables again, another time. Next time would you like to try them raw instead of cooked? Or you could say like, I'm really sorry, you're sad. Come here, and let me give you a hug.
Mackenzie Johnson:And I think of times that we've been like, okay, this was hard for you. You're disappointed. You were hoping this was the kind of pasta you like, you were hoping it was your pasta. I understand you're disappointed that this isn't your favorite one and instead, it's my favorite that you don't really like that much like that. I could see why that's disappointing. Yeah. And so yeah, again, it's not about the power struggle. And I think I love this idea of like, ooh, yeah, maybe I say that. Instead, I could say this in a way that's going to promote more positive behaviors and beliefs and attitudes in our kids when it comes to food. Yeah, so I love that hinder or help and we want to help and have strategies that help us increase their food acceptance. Okay, now I feel like I'm in flow. Now I can say that phrase, increase their food acceptance. So I'm kind of curious now. That's what we had for our script and our strategies and research and reality and all the things above. Mackenzie DeJong, do you have anything you'd like to ask us? Or are we just off the hook, and you're like, no, I said my piece.
Mackenzie DeJong:I don't know if I have questions. But I do have some things for myself this week to do. Modeling the behavior of doing it myself so that I can be a good model of it. I decided that this week, I'm going to smell some new foods.
Mackenzie Johnson:I love that.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:I hope you report back and tell us what you smelled.
Mackenzie DeJong:So there's certain things that I'm like eh, but I'll smell them. You know, I am going to try to put some things that I typically wouldn't even put on my plate on my plate. As I'm eating meals with others, like I might say, okay, we'll put a couple of those on my plate. And then I'm gonna see if there's a chance throughout the week to try a new flavor flavor combo. So maybe there's something I wouldn't typically eat that I can dip in ranch or ketchup. That's another one is like put it into my pasta. Mix it into something. Yeah. So those are the three things that I'm telling myself, those are my goals for the week to try to increase my acceptance of food, right? Yeah.
Mackenzie Johnson:Increase your food acceptance. Good job. We're getting it.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:I love that so much. You set such a good example. Maybe parents again, maybe I think you've put out some really good examples or a really good point, too, that this could be overwhelming and exhausting trying to do all these things at one time. So yeah, pick three things you want to try. I'm not saying like, even maybe you don't feel like doing all these things right now. You can't do all these things so three things is great.
Mackenzie DeJong:Smelling new foods. It sounds weird but I'm
Mackenzie Johnson:And I also think you are giving an example going to do it. right there. We have listeners too, like yes, I'm an adventurous eater. Yay. Not every parent is. Some parents are much more on your end of the continuum. And so as they think about if they have a child who has low food acceptance, you know that they are like, okay, some of it is I'm gonna reflect on my modeling this week, right? This week, I'm gonna do this one thing related to that. And yeah, you have me thinking, I'm like, okay, my goal setting, I'm going to serve peas. In the next week, we're going to have peas. And I'm gonna, like, avoid the see, wasn't that good, if my child tries new food, I'm gonna work on the what did you think? How was that? And then yes, if she likes it, then don't be like, you tried something. And it was good to you. So, um, yeah.
Mackenzie DeJong:And honestly, you know, I was eating some meals with my niece and nephews this weekend. And I was thinking like, the idea of just putting some of those things on my plate as a model. Even if I'm exposing myself, then maybe my nephew would be like, oh, maybe I should put that on my plate. So I'm gonna do it for me, but also for them. And try to try to increase that as well.
Mackenzie Johnson:So, and my partner will also maybe have to practice that this week when I serve peas. He's also not a big fan.
Mackenzie DeJong:Put a few on your plate.
Mackenzie Johnson:It's good modeling. It's good repeated exposure for you. Maybe not totally reformed that.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Again, another good point here is if you are a parent of a teenager or an adult who has a, you know, low food acceptance eater, that it's never too late to try some of these strategies, too. So very true. If you're listening to this, and you know, completely relate to Mackenzie and everything she's saying about her eating, as well. Like, don't feel like you're doing things wrong. Just try some of the strategies yourself.
Mackenzie Johnson:And I think of some of the obstacles you've overcome as you work towards progress on picky eating, I had fewer obstacles related to my temperament, related to the adults around me related to it. So it's not a matter of I did better than you. Right? That's not the case. We started at different baselines. Yeah, we're starting at a different baseline. And that's okay. If your baseline right now as a listener, is like, well, I could work towards being more like Mackenzie DeJong. Right? Like that would be progress. That's great. Those are all good things. We start at different baselines.
Mackenzie DeJong:If you are still unsure about salad, just put a little on your plate.
Mackenzie Johnson:Just try it. It's great.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Do it differently. Put it with something you would really like flavor flavor.
Mackenzie DeJong:Just a little bit. It's really about taking one tiny bite at a time.
Mackenzie Johnson:One bite at a time.
Mackenzie DeJong:I'm going to leave.
Mackenzie Johnson:Like I got my food put in for the season. Did it. Awesome. Thanks, Mackenzie. Yeah, I do. I feel like this is like the episode where people are like oh, kids and food. Tell me about that. And yeah, understanding that it's a developmental phase. It makes sense why it happens. There's different things that contribute to it, and that it's temporary. That we have all kinds of strategies to help our kids increase their food acceptance as they get older. And yeah, even if you have kids that are not in that three to nine kind of typical range, that have low food acceptance, there's still strategies. These strategies can work for you just adapting them for your family. And yes, the persevering, repeated food exposure is top of mind. And then we have lots of other words to tap into as well.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Oh, yes. Persistence, persistence, persevere,
Mackenzie Johnson:And then next week, right next week, we're gonna kind of wrap the season up.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:I know. Are you sad?
Mackenzie Johnson:I am. I like Lyndi.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:Oh, I have ideas. I have ideas.
Mackenzie Johnson:We can tell you about them. I want all the ideas. We're keeping you around. I voted. I mean, I haven't talked to you about it. You know, so much voting power right. None. Zero. But yeah, so next episode, we're gonna wrap up the season and kind of like, we're kind of gonna go back to a little bit of the first episode of the season. So we'll tie all of it together that we talked about.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:We'll talk about a little bit of what influences what your kids eat. Talk a little bit about dietary guidelines for Americans and why that's important for all of that and how all of that can influence what your kids are eating from all the way at that community culture level to your individual kiddo level.
Mackenzie Johnson:Absolutely. Yeah. Excited to dig into that for kind of the last episode of the season. But for now, thank you for joining us today on The Science of Parenting podcast. Don't forget that you can subscribe to us on any podcast app, whichever one is your favorite and you can stay caught up with our content.
Lyndi Buckingham-Schutt:So come along with us as we tackle the ups and downs, the ins and outs, and the research and reality all around The Science of Parenting.
Anthony Santiago:The Science of Parenting is hosted by Mackenzie Johnson, produced by Mackenzie DeJong, with research and writing by Barbara Dunn Swanson. Send in questions and comments to parenting@iastate.edu and connect with us on Facebook and Twitter. This institution is an equal opportunity provider. For the full non-discrimination statement or accommodation inquiries, go to www.extension.iastate.edu/diversity/ext