Speaking on Special Needs & Temperament | S.7 Ep. 7

Children with diverse abilities or special needs have temperament traits too.  Many techniques that work for adapting to diverse needs can be used to work with your child's temperament too (and vice versa)! Goodness of fit is important! 

Transcript

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Mackenzie Johnson: 0:09

Welcome to The Science of Parenting podcast where we connect you with research based information that fits your family. We'll talk about the realities of being a parent, and how research can help guide our parenting decisions. I'm Mackenzie Johnson, parent of two littles with their own quirks. And I'm a parenting educator.

Lori Korthals: 0:25

And I'm Lori Korthals, parent of three in two different life stages, two are launched and one is in high school. And I am a parenting educator. And we are on our last episode of season seven.

Mackenzie Johnson: 0:39

Yes, this season where we get to kind of mash. It's almost done.

Lori Korthals: 0:44

We're mashing child development and temperament all into one, just like we've done the last six weeks. And here we are on our last episode this season, super sad. Taking kind of a different spin on it too, right? We've talked about the different ages through this season. And today we get to look at kind of a similar topic, but how it's different. Yes, absolutely. So what we're doing is we are just taking a step back for a brief second and talking specifically about how temperament interplays and interacts with children with special needs or children with diverse abilities. And the key here is that we recognize that all children have diverse abilities. Some children have specific diagnosis. And because they have a specific diagnosis, that doesn't mean that they don't have a temperament. They actually still do. Mm hmm. Yeah. So right there, it is right there and it is interacting with and mashing together with their disability or their special needs that they have. So that's what we're going to talk about today.

Mackenzie Johnson: 1:51

Yes, and you know, every episode, we've talked about this idea that parenting is bi-directional, that our kids influence us, as much as we influence them, right? The way that we parent is influenced by our child. And up to this point, we've talked a lot about how temperament is a big factor, you know, and other things like their gender, their birth order, their health status, and that can include their special needs, or their diverse abilities. And so their needs also influence us and how we parent and how we help them get through life. So we are gonna look at how temperament influences and comes alongside and mashes with diverse needs. And we know that not every child reaches developmental milestones at the same time, or even in the same way. And so we are still going to need to be thinking about temperament throughout.

Lori Korthals: 2:38

We are and as we look at temperament, we've talked about it being this factory reset. So the genes that we get from our parents are kind of that foundation of our personality. And so we layer on personality, child development, where we live, who we live with, how people respond to us. And that's what creates our temperament. And regardless of your diverse ability, you still have a factory reset. And so when we look at that, again, there's this idea that we can predict a child's reactions. We can also sometimes predict a child's reactions based on a specific diagnosis. And so we're gonna look at the two together, just like we have the last six weeks.

Mackenzie Johnson: 3:27

Yes. And so seeing how they come alongside, when we got ready to do this episode, and every time we've talked about temperament, and we even had an episode back in season three where we talked a little bit about temperament and special needs together. And I was just like, but Lori, okay, but temperament and special needs, and we're gonna get there. But my takeaway as of right now when we look at temperament, and how it functions alongside special needs is like, they're separate and they overlap. They can be different things and they can be similar things which is very vague and not helpful at all. But I promise in a little bit we'll be more helpful.

Lori Korthals: 4:07

It will be super helpful. And I think that the idea as we look at this, we're also going to use different phrases. We're going to use the word phrase special needs, because that's what many people are familiar with. But we're also going to use the words diverse abilities, as in diverse abilities, or diverse needs, or maybe a special abilities, just as a way to really focus more on the behaviors that all children have, as opposed to looking at it from some type of something they don't have.

Mackenzie Johnson: 4:48

Yes, yes, the abilities that they do have and you know, I've even heard the term differently abled, right. There are abilities that a child with special needs has, kind of a superpower if you will, that maybe myself, I don't have as a typically developing person. And so there are, there's different abilities and diverse needs and special needs and all those things. Yeah. So I love that. Yeah. And well, one thing that I've learned, you know, I've been honest about it, I have some experience with relatives who have some special needs, but I've never been the parent of a child with special needs. But one thing I've learned, if you are a parent that's listening to this episode, here wanting to be an ally to other parents, parents that have a child with special needs. One thing that I've learned is this idea of person first language. So this is just a simple way in how you talk about things, how you talk about people. The idea is to talk about the person before you talk about a certain characteristic or trait. So you might say, the person using a wheelchair. You might say, a child with autism. But you talk about the person, and then that trait is a descriptor, it's not who they are, right. And so I've learned a little bit about how I can use person first language to be an ally for people. And also that I've been willing to take the feedback that some people don't prefer that term. Some people feel more empowered by not person first language. But person first language is a good place to start and then allowing people to teach you otherwise. So if you're here listening or watching and trying to be an ally to families who have a child with special needs, that's one thing I've learned. But Lori, I know you have much more first hand experience here. And so I guess I'm just curious, you've got all kinds of stories and experience, anything you'd be willing to share with people?

Lori Korthals: 6:41

So when you said the word superpower, I immediately started thinking of my daughter, and I would say her superpower is that she is able to be super sensitive to other's needs and their emotions. And that is definitely a superpower, just her capability of tuning in to how someone else feels. You know, which at times is hard for her because she can feel what others feel so strongly, and that is part of her diagnosis. And so it is an aspect of her disability that she has this superpowered sensitivity.

Mackenzie Johnson: 7:26

Yes, yes. And, you know, that the temperament, again, comes along as a separate thing. And it comes alongside and they overlap in a lot of ways.

Lori Korthals: 7:35

Absolutely, absolutely. So this might be a good place to also talk about goodness of fit. And as we've talked about before, Thomas and Chess talk about goodness of fit as the adults' willingness to kind of alter their style of caregiving in a way that they can accurately read their child and then work together to create a more beneficial fit in terms of how do we nurture effective interactions, etc. And so, the interesting thing to me is that as the parent of a child with diverse abilities, I always felt like I was more allowed to accommodate or adapt how I worked with or how I would encourage others, whether they were childcare providers or teachers, they seemed more willing to hear about that goodness of fit because she had a diagnosis. And so I just couldn't always help but wonder, how would it be if a child didn't have to have a diagnosis, and the adult was really still just as willing to adapt or accommodate based on their temperament style. So I love the goodness of fit. And there's this that I see two different lenses, having a child with a diagnosis and two without, where I almost sometimes utilized that diagnosis as a way to say no, actually, you the adult are going to alter and accommodate and change your style so that you can have a better fit, a good fit with this child and her needs.

Mackenzie Johnson: 9:21

Yes. Well, I think that also lends itself to talk about how you as a parent gain some superpowers and resilience of like, I had this experience of having to advocate for my child and telling other adults no, you have to accommodate and you have that experience, which then built your strength and your confidence going forward to yes, I'm allowed to ask for what my child needs. Both my child with special needs and my typically developing children.

Lori Korthals: 9:52

Yes, yeah. Yes. So big. Yes. Such a big yes.

Mackenzie Johnson: 9:57

Well, and you shared a story earlier, you were talking about how sometimes when it comes to special needs, the accommodations that we're able to offer to create a goodness of fit for someone with special needs, also benefit other people as well to offer those accommodations. Will you tell that story?

Lori Korthals: 10:16

Yeah, sure. Yeah. So this story didn't actually happen until she was in high school. And what happened was, she was going to need to pass a specific benchmark in English class, right. So there was a specific benchmark that her English teacher was looking for. And that benchmark involved interaction with her peers. And so he reached out to me and said he was struggling with this particular benchmark, because she wasn't really interested in interacting with her peers in small groups. And yeah, that's her disability. Yes. So how can we reach this benchmark a different way? And, you know, at first he wasn't sure because she was going to have to interact and I was like, okay, well, that's great. She actually does interact with people, we just had to figure out the right method. Right. And so what I knew was that they had an online platform that they were utilizing in different ways throughout the class in English. And I said, well, what if you do it for all of them, but could there just be one particular assignment that you did in an online platform so that she could interact online instead of face to face? And yes, this was prior to COVID and online learning, but they were utilizing this online discussion board for something very, very minor. It had nothing to do with benchmarks. And so he agreed, he said, okay, you know, that would be fine. I'm going to put this specific English prompt up. It was questions about a story that they were reading, so he put them in the online platform. And you just couldn't even believe it. When he called me and told me how many times she engaged in that particular discussion, I just laughed out loud. Thirteen times, she responded 13 times in that discussion board. And he was blown away, I was blown away, I was happy that he was willing to make that accommodation. That's not the end of the story, though. Because about a week or two later, maybe a month, what he said to me just honestly made my heart soar, as in s o a r, fly high, as in good. He said, you know, I've began to offer more prompts online or portion of the prompts online. Because what I realized was that, yes, we made the accommodation due to Emily's disability. But what I didn't realize is how many other children probably were not comfortable simply interacting face to face. And he said, the number of interactions has gone up dramatically for my students who maybe weren't doing so well before with just the face to face opportunities. So that's an example of a temperament trait, a temperament tool, right, that was specifically utilized for diverse ability but works for everyone, like it works for everyone. And I just couldn't be more proud of this young teacher that was willing to recognize how that tool could work for everyone.

Mackenzie Johnson: 13:28

Yes. And I think that really leans into, you know, as a parent, I want to be more inclusive, whether it's related to diverse needs, or abilities, or whatever it is, I want to be more inclusive myself and raise kids who are more inclusive, and realizing that fair isn't always equal, and that sometimes the efforts we make to be inclusive of one person can include more people. You know, I think I listened to a speaker one time talk about universal design. And they're like, so the push button on a door to be automatic was maybe designed for someone who uses a wheelchair. But it also benefits a parent who's pushing a stroller. It also benefits someone carrying an arm load of groceries, And yeah, so it's just like when we work to be more inclusive, whether it's related to special needs, or whatever, we can include even more people, and especially with stuff like this related to their temperament, too.

Lori Korthals: 14:22

Exactly, exactly. Alright, so we've taken the nine different temperament traits piece by piece over the last six weeks. We're gonna do that still a little bit, but we might lump some together. But what we want to try to do is offer a tool or a trick or a technique that yes, it's super important for a child who has diverse abilities, but it might also be equally important for any child with a particularly difficult temperament characteristic.

Mackenzie Johnson: 14:52

Yes, so whether it's related to their diagnosis or whether it's related to their temperament, these tips and tricks can work. The takeaway it's a takeaway for

Lori Korthals: 15:03

Alright, so just very quickly activity level. everyone. We've talked about that in terms of it's that natural energy. And regardless of special need or ability, some children are going to need us to plan to give them more opportunity to express that energy. And some children ar going to need us to allow them chance for more breaks. Doesn' matter what their ability is their temperament says, I hav too much energy. Help me release it. No amount of telling me to sit and be quiet is going to help this natural energy. Yeah, and so just recognizing that it is important for us to allow for those moments of quiet as well as those places to be ac ive.

Mackenzie Johnson: 15:52

Absolutely. And then we're going to lump the two together, the adaptability and approach, which of course, are related to our reactions. With approach, it's to new people, places, things. And then adaptability is how we deal with the transition or the unexpected, and the length of time it can take us to adapt. And so when we think about high and low of these traits, we think about a child that maybe is high approach or high adaptability may be quicker to jump in. If it's related to a special need, that maybe could be a part of their brain development or a part of their specific diagnosis, to not process that consequence. But it's also a temperament trait, right. And so a child that has a high approach, high adaptability, might need a little bit closer reins, right. Keeping a close eye so that they don't take risky choices, or don't jump in too quick, you know. Or they might need reminders to stop and think. That's what I still need with my high approach and high adaptability. There's reminders to stop, slow down, consider things. But then also for a child that's lower approach or lower adaptability, we talked about flexible thinking, right? We encourage to see it another way. We can even help advocate for them to other adults to understand they prefer sameness. They prefer things that are familiar, and so that advocating and the process of helping them get unstuck, whatever that looks like for your child.

Lori Korthals: 17:19

Yeah, exactly. And as we move from adoptability and approach withdrawal, we move into that area of sensitivity because their senses, or their super senses like Emily has, are going to be right alongside that. Again, are some diagnoses that involve the sensory processing pieces. And so I've just got to remind everyone that, you know, there are clothing manufacturers that have taken their tags and seams out of clothing. Right. Okay, so this is not just something that we make up right. No this is this is real life temperament stuff. So especially when it comes to those sensory areas, taste, touch, sight, sound, smell, and even those emotional, those types of temperament tips are really important for all children. I know that there are techniques to really help children become aware of their sensitivities, where we share with them what it is that we recognize they're being sensitive to. I know that even with Emily with her diagnosis, I would say things I can tell like right now, that is really making you feel uncomfortable. And she would nod her head, yes. Like, oh my gosh, I get it. I cannot put that in my mouth. Right? That understanding and that recognition, and that you as the adult model for them. Okay, you might not be able to put that whole spoon in your mouth because of that texture, but maybe just a taste or just a tip. And so really that idea of, I am listening to you, and I get it even though my super senses don't exist, I acknowledge that yours do.

Mackenzie Johnson: 19:11

Absolutely. And another one is intensity. And we do see this is related to emotional intensity, how strongly emotions are experienced and expressed. And so a child that is highly intense can use those reminders to stop, breathe, and talk, which of course, is our favorite parenting technique. And, honestly, just favorite regulation technique. You know, so not only do we teach our kids about it, we model it for our intense kids. We use strategies that help encourage their emotional regulation. You know, and then for kids that are less intense and it's hard for us to understand them. You know, some children are nonverbal for a longer period related to the diagnoses and special needs they have. And so we have to find ways to help them express. And so if a child's nonverbal that include could include things like pictures or it can include things like visual schedules, social stories. But again, that's an accommodation that we might offer related to special needs, that kids that are just less intense, could benefit from. Tools that are going to help them express themselves.

Lori Korthals: 20:22

Absolutely. The next two distractibility and persistence, I'll just kind of swing those together as well. And what we're looking at here is the idea that there are some diagnoses that involve a less persistent and highly distractible temperament trait kind of combined together. And what we do for those temperament traits in general is we give children reminders to stay on task. We utilize the senses to help them stay on task. We might use bells or visual red, yellow and green pictures to help them recognize when their behaviors are hedging toward that inappropriate way. We might use reminders, cues, sticky notes, similar phrases and words. Maybe the words that we use are the same over and over to help them remember. And then when those kids that kind of get stuck that are very persistent and not distractible, acknowledging their feelings, where they're stuck at and share with them ways and model ways that we can have flexible thinking. Last time when we were talking about teens we talked about, it's different, not wrong, helping children think about how yes, some children are going to complete this task differently. And even practicing, so we might have that idea of things have to be perfect. Maybe we practice just good enough. Yeah. And so using those opportunities to model those techniques with children.

Mackenzie Johnson: 22:03

Yes. And then another one being regularity. And honestly, I feel like the message is the same. You always talk about regularity is related to eat, sleep, poop. Is someone pretty regular? And how consistently those things happens, according to a clock, or more irregular and hard to predict. And you talk about parents always want to control this right in potty training, at mealtime. And the reality is whether it's special needs or temperament, we have to adapt to our children's regularity. If we have a very regular child who is ready for bed at this time, all the time, or has a really hard time varying from that routine, or whatever it is, as parents we have to learn to accommodate it because it's not changing. Or given a very regular child, we still have to learn to accommodate it because it's not changing. So it's the same story when it comes to regularity. We have to recognize what our child has been gifted for their temperament of regularity and we get to kind of come along and find those ways. Are they operating on a clock? Or do they operate more on cues?

Lori Korthals: 23:08

Exactly. And then the last one is mood. And I think that the key here is we recognize that a negative mood in children as a temperament trait is hard. It's difficult. And then in some cases, when there's a diagnosed disability, it is even more difficult if the mood is that factory reset is negative, okay. And so the key here is that as the adults, it is our responsibility to take time to deregulate, to decompress, and reregulate ourselves, right? We want to reregulate ourselves and decompress and take care of ourselves so that we can care for our child that has a negative mood. And I think that as we think about all of these traits and goodness of fit and like I said, sometimes as adults, we're more willing to work on that accommodation if there is a special need. But the reality is that all children have diverse needs and gifts and all children need us to be able to consider accommodating and adapting.

Mackenzie Johnson: 24:22

Yes. And that really comes back to that goodness of fit. That is the thing as I would interrogate you, okay, but Lori, the difference between temperament and special needs, how do we know? How do I know if this is related to a diagnosis? Or how do I know if this is related to temperament? Okay, let it go. And we do have an answer to that question. But Lori also let me come to the realization of either way, it's goodness of fit, in terms of what matters for us as a parent and the way we react and interact with our child. Yes, if they have a diagnosis we want to get it addressed. The question of figuring that out is a different thing, then ultimately, our reality is our job is to create goodness of fit. And again, whether it's temperament, whether it's a child with special needs, a part of that is also sharing the information that you've gleaned about your child's temperament and the way they interact with the world with other people so that other people in other environments that our child experiences, also get to have that goodness of fit. That communication piece is really important too.

Lori Korthals: 25:37

It is and I remember each school, I think I talked about this on our little bonus episode, that I would send an email to my child's teacher and say, here's her diagnosis and here are some ways that, you know, you might be able to engage with her. And then I would sit back and smile, and I would think, okay, I have a friend whose child doesn't have an official diagnosis, but they just have a really spirited child and difficult temperament. And so I would send that parent the same email, minus the official diagnosis. And I would say, here is something that you could send to your child's teacher because you have a spirited child. They might enjoy these tips and tricks while they have your child in their classroom.

Mackenzie Johnson: 26:19

I love that so much. Yeah. Actually, it's a very good idea. Let's tell everybody. But I want to come back to that question. So the difference between temperament and the difference between special needs and how you tell them apart. You actually have a story that I think will lead us really well into that related to how it is different for a different experience for a child with special needs and for that child's parent. You had a story about the first day of school?

Lori Korthals: 26:49

I do, I do. First day of kindergarten for my sweet sweetheart. She has super senses, right? I said she's got super senses. And that's just one aspect of her disability. And so first day of kindergarten, she's walking from her classroom down to their computer room, which happened to be in a different space because this was not an age of one to one computers. And so they were walking down as kindergarteners single file in a line down the hallway. And they began to walk through the computer room door. And just above that door is a big red fire bell. And that fire bell began to clang because it was a fire drill. And so the kindergarteners on the first day of school walking under that great big, loud, noisy, red fire drill ball, heard the most atrocious noisy sound. And so my daughter began to immediately cry and also other children began to cry. Alright, so there were other children who maybe had a highly sensitive temperament trait, highly intense. Not adaptable, okay. So several children began to cry. Well, three days later when it was again time to go into the computer room, there was some hesitancy between some children who had cried the first time and for my daughter, it was a repeat of the cry and the wailing and definitely not about to go into that classroom. You know, so we get to day five, there's less hesitancy on the part of the other children and my child is still wailing and crying. Three months later, the child has still not walked into the classroom, and the school is now getting upset with her because everyone else has now adapted. All the other kindergarteners are willing to go into the computer room, and she will not go in. And in fact, she ends up sitting in the office because they need to have her sit somewhere because the teacher has to be in the computer room. So as parents, we come in and for the next three months, when they had computer class, we would sit in the computer room with her. And she would still cry, no more wailing, but she would still cry. So six months after school started with that very first fire drill on the very first day. By the end of the school year, we were still in the classroom with her but she was not crying anymore. When it came to first grade, she did finally go into that computer room because they assured her there was no fire drill on that first day. And the remaining years in that school, they often gave her a heads up when there was going to be a fire drill.

Mackenzie Johnson: 29:34

A huge sensory experience for anybody. It's loud, it's startling. Things are not going how they were supposed to, right? You were just planning to go into this room and now everything's all chaos.

Lori Korthals: 29:47

Yes, yes. And so if we look at temperament versus special needs because like you said, you kept interrogating me. Yeah, the difference is the duration and intensity So the duration and intensity for Emily was the entire school year. Right? The intensity eventually came down. The duration lasted longer than any other child in the classroom. There were still children who had highly sensitive temperament traits, aspects, whatever, but the duration and intensity of their fear because of that fire drill waned earlier than hers did.

Mackenzie Johnson: 30:29

Yes.

Lori Korthals: 30:30

That's a huge difference.

Mackenzie Johnson: 30:32

Yes. And, okay, so like she said, she's not kidding. I was like, okay, but Lori. Okay. But Lori, I just kept after her. I'm like, I don't, I don't know. I feel like and yes, it is important information to understand as a parent, when you're trying to figure out how to help your child, to help see them succeed. And yes, that duration of that response and the intensity of that response was different than for those typically developing children who it was like temperamentally difficult for. Yes. And I struggle with that, you know, I have a spirited child, and is it temperament or is it ADHD. It's still very young for us to even to be figuring that out. And I can lean into this of like, is it that she is less adaptable, highly active, highly distractible? Is it more intense than typical? And does the response last longer than is typical? And so that gives us a way to figure out because we do want to advocate for what's best for our child? Is there medication? Is it an accommodation that we can request? Is it some kind of therapies and what our children benefit from does depend on those diverse abilities and diverse needs. But exactly, I just really appreciate the answer. And Dr. Shawn McDevitt talked about that a little bit, but it did not click for me until today as we walk through this episode. I'm like, ah, yeah, that's what he said when he was talking about the duration and intensity.

Lori Korthals: 32:03

That's it. Yes. Yes. And even as we process through, I can think of five or six or eight or 12,000 more stories of it was duration and intensity. Uh huh. Yeah. But all the time, because we didn't have a name for the diagnosis until she was in her teens. Or, you know, pre-adolescence, right? Yeah. But the whole time before that, I was sharing temperament tips, tricks, tools and techniques, because that's what I knew. Mm hmm. And they work for everyone.

Mackenzie Johnson: 32:41

Yes. Because ultimately our goal was still goodness of fit. Absolutely. And it's the goal we can share with other adults, whether or not they understand the duration intensity difference, either way, this can still help my child. Goodness, goodness of fit. Yes. And so that was kind of our little reality section. We always like to come down to that. We share a lot of research. And in your practical real world questions, the reality you live every day, th t duration intensity is a big t ing for that. But we do want to move into our Stop. Breathe. alk. space. So we have our colle gue, Barb Dunn Swanson, who ge s to jump in and just kind of sh re a little bit more thought on the topic. And I know Lori alway has a question for Barb

Lori Korthals: 33:26

I do. Barb, what are you thinking?

Barb Dunn Swanson: 33:31

Well, I am thinking about some of the A words you used today. I want to touch on some of those A words. Okay. Mackenzie Johnson, you said it right off the bat. You talked about being an ally? All children need allies. And guess who the first allies are - their parents. And parents as the first educators of their children, they're the ones like you, Lori, who were able to spot that perhaps in addition to noticing your own child's temperament, that perhaps something more was going on, and that maybe you needed another diagnosis on top of what you might have thought. And so parents know what's going on in their family. And so I always think about the second A that I heard you talk about, and that was acommodatian. Accommodation. You know what? Special need or not, all of us from time to time may need an accommodation from somebody for something. True. And accommodation is nothing to be ashamed of and or anything that needs an apology for.

Mackenzie Johnson: 35:04

Yes, both A words.

Barb Dunn Swanson: 35:11

These A words are so critical, I think, to the discussion that we're having today. Because for families that have not had an experience of a child with a special ability, they may not understand that they judge harshly. Or they may judge a child differently, because of what they see the child behaving like, or what they see the child doing. And that judgment comes at a cost. It can come at a cost of self esteem. It can come at a cost of furthering that temperament of hesitancy maybe making that child's mood more sullen, if they feel they've been judged because of their abilities that are different than someone else's. And so I just really think about families who are allies, and make those accommodations. And then that last A, to me that was so important was to continue as a family to advocate for your kids. Absolutely. Lori, you gave such beautiful examples of ways and language that you used with, for instance, the school system, or even maybe within your medical community when you were getting the diagnosis. You used language that showed you were willing to advocate for your child. Yes, those A's are so important. So I just encourage everybody to think about not judging anybody else for the experiences they're having as a family. I always say this, every time we get together, the journey in parenting is yours alone. No one else has the exact same experience. And so maybe we need to give each other some space to be on that journey without judgment. That's pretty important to everybody.

Lori Korthals: 37:18

Yes, thank you.

Mackenzie Johnson: 37:19

Oh, yes. And I think it's especially important, Barb, for parents of children with special means because their child's needs might be different than another child, whether it's another child with special needs or another typically developing child. And so I do think that judgment that parents sometimes experience when they're advocating and fighting on behalf of their child is unfair. And so we hope this is a space where you know, we believe in your ability to advocate and create a goodness of fit, right?

Lori Korthals: 37:46

Absolutely. Yes. Yay.

Barb Dunn Swanson: 37:49

Your kids rely on it. Your kids rely on you to be the advocate, for you to be the ally. And for you to provide an accommodation if it's in their best interest. They rely on that. Yes.

Lori Korthals: 38:03

Thank you so much, Barb.

Barb Dunn Swanson: 38:05

Well, you're welcome.

Mackenzie Johnson: 38:07

We always love having Barb jump in here with us, and Barb and I are almost a little matchy today. We are coincidentally almost a little bit matchy but we do, we love to hear her insight on important topics like this.

Lori Korthals: 38:21

We do so we've covered a lot this season. We hope that we covered something different than you heard in season three and season five. And we look forward to continuing to share information with you about the fact that there's more than one way to raise great kids. And as we look at temperament and special needs, we recognize that all kids have different abilities. We recognize that all kids have special things that they need us to consider as they grow, learn and engage throughout their lifetime.

Mackenzie Johnson: 39:01

And that's the goodness of fit, right? Goodness of fit is the thing we can cling to from the temperament across any age because we do see temperament interact with developmental stages. You know, we do see the challenges the child's facing at a certan age, their temperament is really going to come out to play with that particular task. And so we always get to lean into that goodness of fit.

Lori Korthals: 39:23

We do. So we thank you for joining us today at The Science of Parenting and we invite you to watch us weekly on Facebook and catch us there. Make sure you comment and engage with us. We love when we're able to engage with our listeners.

Mackenzie Johnson: 39:39

Please do. We're going to be taking a little break here before our next season. And so please do follow us on social media so that you can come along with us as we tackle the ups and downs, the ins and outs, and the research and reality all around The Science of Parenting.

Lori Korthals: 39:56

The Science of Parenting is hosted by Lori Korthals and Mackenzie Johnso, produced by Mackenzie DeJong with research and writing by B rbara Dunn Swanson. Send in qu stions and comments to parenti g@iastate.edu and connect with u on Facebook and Twitter. This nstitution is an equal opportun ty provider. For the full non- iscrimination statement or ccommodation inquiries go o www.extension.iastate.edu/dive sity/ext.