Recognizing the Parent-Child Relationship | S.8 Ep.4

We all hope we have a positive relationship with our child, but did you know the climate of that relationship is a major factor in how resistant or cooperative your child is with your attempts to shape their behavior? Listen in for suggestions on how to promote a warm parent-child relationship.

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Lori Korthals: 0:01

Welcome to The Science of Parenting podcast, where we connect you with research based information that fits your family. I'm Lori Korthals, parents of three in two different life stages. Two are launched and one is still in high school. And I'm a parenting educator.

Mackenzie Johnson: 0:17

And I'm Mackenzie Johnson, parent of two littles with their own quirks. And I'm a parenting educator. Today we'll talk about the realities of raising a family, and how research can help guide our parenting decisions. Hey, everybody, we're back again here at The Science of Parenting. Ready to chat with you guys. Still season eight and still talking about this great guidance and discipline debate. I love that. It's like rhymes and alliteration. Great debate. Great guidance.

Lori Korthals: 0:46

Okay, I like it. So yeah, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. And this season, we are taking a look at this topic from multiple perspectives, recognizing that it takes more than one way to raise great kids. And we want to fill your parenting toolbox with a lot of really great options and opportunities when it comes to guidance and discipline. And so our research this season is coming from that Handbook of Parenting, remember, edited by Mark Bornstein. And the volume we're looking at is the Practice of Parenting, specifically the chapter on discipline, which was written by Dr. Jennifer Lansford.

Mackenzie Johnson: 1:25

We sure are, yeah, all season is in that chapter, referring to it and a couple other chapters here and there, but mostly that discipline chapter. You know, last week we looked at emotions and how they influence our parenting decisions. And we broke down the three parts of the emotional process and things that influence how strongly we react. And, you know, we also looked at some different strategies for learning our goals, and aligning with our kids at least. And before we were talking through this episode, you know, we were thinking that it would be a good chance to remind everybody that sometimes discipline can feel like a heavy topic, that's serious, are they really gonna talk about that? It's like, okay, hold on, but this can be a really positive thing. We have an opportunity to shape somebody's values and behavior. Yes. I mean, we get to do that with our kids and that's cool. Yes. How could we not talk about it? We've got to talk about it. We do. We did. We need to reframe that conversation.

Lori Korthals: 2:27

Exactly. And especially for today's topic, super relevant, because we're really going to look today at that broader relationship. When we look at how important our attempts are to shape our children's behavior, that big picture and, you know, growing them up into kind, wonderful human beings that contribute to the society, right?

Mackenzie Johnson: 2:47

Growing them up.

Lori Korthals: 2:49

Grrowing them up.

Mackenzie Johnson: 2:50

I love growing them up. Well, we are gonna reference a little bit of theory, okay. But we're not going to go in depth on one, I'll save that for later. I know you are so glad we get to do a choice. But many classic parenting theories, our first research bit here is that they typically describe practices and styles along what they call two dimensions. So two components, two pieces of this puzzle. One of them is the dimension of discipline, the actual behavior that we do to try to guide our children's behavior. But the second one is the overall emotional climate. So the relationship that we have with our kids. So there's discipline, the actual behaviors, and then there's the actual climate of our relationship, and there are two parts of this puzzle of what impacts discipline, what impacts how receptive our kids are, what impacts all these parts. We can't gloss over, can't talk about discipline and then gloss over the relationship. No, it's a huge component. It's one of the two, it's 50%.

Lori Korthals: 3:58

If we look at these two pieces, and you can find these two pieces, literally in almost every parenting strategy, framework theory, and sometimes you'll hear them as strictness versus permissiveness, or control versus autonomy, or even, you know, things like attachment versus involvement, detachment versus involvement. There's just a lot of ways but ultimately, it typically comes down to these two things, the behavior and the climate. And that climate is also that connection, so that connection between the adult and the child and we know that connection comes with emotion, like we talked about last week, right? So that connection, and what do we think of when we describe our relationship with our children? What does that feel like, sound like? What word pictures come to mind as we think about that piece, that second piece of the puzzle? So that's my question, actually. Now that I'm thinking out loud. That's a question. I have a question for you, Mackenzie.

Mackenzie Johnson: 4:59

I would like to hear your question again.

Lori Korthals: 5:01

What words come to mind when you think about that connection relationship attachment? What would your hope your relationship sounds like to someone else? Is that fair?

Mackenzie Johnson: 5:15

Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Okay. Well, like the first word that comes to mind is, I hope my parent child relationship with my kids is loving and warm. Um, I hope it's personal. Or like, individualized. Intimate. Yep, that's all one idea. Yes. One word.

Lori Korthals: 5:38

There's no rules here. No rules.

Mackenzie Johnson: 5:42

Okay, and then the other one that comes to mind is, two more actually. One is authentic. I want my relationship with my kids to be about who I am and who they are. And that we don't need to be anybody else but who we are. And then the other one is, I want to be reliable. I want to be an active and attentive parent that my kids feel like they count on me. They know they can come to me with this because I consistently, reliably show up. Oh, okay. So yeah, lovable, authentic, intimate, reliable. That's what I got.

Lori Korthals: 6:20

When you said lovable, the first picture that came into my mind was lovable, furry, old Grover. I love Grover. Yeah, that's what I want my relationship with my kids to be like. Yeah, okay, so what are my word pictures? Um, so I love that you use the word authentic, like super important. I think that especially for myself, personally, there were a lot of years that authenticity wasn't a thing, like I was trying to hide the authentic person I wanted it to be and so now, with my children, I'm really striving to help them find their authenticity and be authentic people and be happy and proud. And, you know, super into that person that they are because they are amazing. And I think that also plays into the word unconditional, like I want them to know that our relationship is unconditional. I'm gonna mess up. I have messed up. They're gonna mess up. They have messed up. And ultimately, we love each other unconditionally. Yeah, yeah. Big words, right. And when we were talking, you said the word silly. And I love that. I want us to just say, you know, it doesn't have to be a big word. It can be a little word. Like, I want our relationship to be silly. I want it to be fun. I want them to smile when they think of it.

Mackenzie Johnson: 7:46

Yes, yes. And like, caring. Yeah. You know, like, that's not warm. Yeah. Complex. Yeah, just like simple things. But yeah, in that, but it looks different for each of us. It does, right. Yeah. Like this idea. We both happen to think authenticity is important. But there's like other things that we might not worry about so much, or that somebody else would be like, I can't believe you didn't say blank. Exactly. Yeah. And so that's a good question, though. So what do we want that relationship to look like? And so here's one of the reasons why it is important to have a positive relationship. Looking at a study from 1994 by grew second good now, okay, tells us that the overall climate of the parent child relationship affects how receptive kids are, to us as parents to our attempts to shape their behavior. Okay, our relationship affects, okay, how receptive they are to our attempts that guidance and discipline.

Lori Korthals: 8:42

That makes sense. So when our kids feel loved and safe, and know we like them, right? And then our attempts to discipline or shape or mold or guide, right. are more effective. Yes. Maybe even easier. Yeah.

Mackenzie Johnson: 8:58

I like easy. I love effective and easy. Okay, I want those. Yeah, yeah. So that relationship is it's shaping. It's the context literal. It's the context in which these attempts to be like, Hey, would you be kind here, we need to be responsible. Hey, that is the context in which all of that happens. is in that relationship? Mm hmm. Absolutely. And I think, I don't know what makes me think back like, okay, we're talking about behavior and emotion. And the last, you know, research tidbit about, like, emotional connection as a part of this. We tend to think about discipline as behavior. Like, it's the things I did, and it's the things that they did. Yes. Um, but yeah, so there's that emotional connection. And there was that study, I think we cited it in the episode where we talked about authoritative parenting like it's back in season one. Okay, but I don't remember for sure, but I feel like I've talked about it before on here. That our relationship with our kids and whether it feels authoritative which balances warmth and expectations or authoritarian, which is more about control. Correct. Which of those it falls into is actually defined by the moments of conflict. Mm hmm. And that's also what this makes me think about is like, right, that relationship and how our kids feel about it is defined, unfortunately, like we can have a lot of other great positive times. But if they don't feel like we have a warm relationship with them when we need to address their misbehavior that shapes their opinion about the whole relationship. That is hard.

Lori Korthals: 10:38

Ouch. Ouch.

Mackenzie Johnson: 10:45

When I'm at my worst, that's when it matters.

Lori Korthals: 10:50

That kind of makes me think about, you know, love and limits. We have a curriculum that we talk about at Iowa State University Extension and Outreach, and that is our Strengthening Families, for Youth 10 to 14. And they talk about love and limits, right? Yes. When we provide limits, it shows our children more love. And so providing limits tells them, Gosh, I really love you. That's why I'm asking you to stay within this boundary. Yes, that feels better.

Mackenzie Johnson: 11:24

It is better well, and also my value of I want my kids to feel like I'm reliable. That's also that they can count on me to help keep them safe, to help them keep growing and make progress, to help them you know. And a part of that is boundaries and expectations. Yes, we can show them love through those limits that we set. Yes.

Lori Korthals: 11:53

Yeah. All right. So that kind of leads us into, you know, how can we make our guidance and discipline more effective? And what does that look like?

Mackenzie Johnson: 12:00

Yeah, what defines effective?

Lori Korthals: 12:03

What defines effective? Alright, okay, so effective for you is different from me, right? And most of us would say that when it comes to what defines effective, we'll kind of think about, okay, did our kids cooperate? Right? Or did they comply with our wishes? Did they meet our expectations? Okay, then my guidance and discipline was effective, right? But we're gonna actually talk about two different things. So we're going to talk about situational compliance or situational effectiveness, and committed compliance or committed effectiveness. Right. So two things, situational and committed. So do you want to kind of define those for us?

Mackenzie Johnson: 12:44

Yes. So in a previous bonus episode, we talked about how certain discipline methods weren't effective, right? They were ineffective and harmful. So understanding what effective is, effective might be compliance, but there's two different kinds. Yes. And so the first one is situational. Or basically, in this moment, the child might do what we want because we're gonna make them right now. But when you look away, I'm gonna do what I want. It's how my dog is about getting food off the table. Right?

Lori Korthals: 13:17

Super situational.

Mackenzie Johnson: 13:19

Super situational. My dog will 100% take food off the table when we are not in the kitchen. Yes, um, right? He's not committed to comply, that's not his values. No. Um, and so that's what situational compliance is. They say less self regulated, the child might be cooperative and comply but lacks sincere commitment. So in order to get that behavior to become a habit or to become long term, it requires parents to intervene again. And so when we talk about some forms of harsh punishment, they might be, quote, unquote, effective for situational compliance. I got you to do what I wanted exactly right now, but if I want you to do what I want, again, every time I'm going to have to intervene. Every time versus what we want to work towards is that committed compliance. Basically, it's when our kids internalize, like, Yes, I think it's important. This is a value I have. And they can start to self regulate. I'm going to choose not to hit, because I believe I shouldn't, not because I'm going to get in trouble if I do it. Yes. Um, and so you know, I'm going to behave in a way that aligns with my mom and dad's rules because I believe in them, too.

Lori Korthals: 14:35

I do believe in them, too. Right. I want them to believe in them, too.

Mackenzie Johnson: 14:39

Right? Please believe them, too. But that's more committed compliance. So when we say that certain forms of harsh punishment are ineffective. We're talking about ineffective and getting committed compliance. If our kids don't know what the desired behavior is or the reason that we have a certain expectation, the chance of them having committed compliance or wanting to do that, you know, I won't eat. My dog wouldn't eat food off the kitchen table if he had committed compliance when I'm not in there.

Lori Korthals: 15:15

Yes. Okay, well, I have an example. Um, okay, you can tell me if this is right or wrong. Okay, so I have older children. And so I'm thinking about curfew, right. And so what I'm thinking about is the fact that 90% of the time, my child, my 17 year old, meets curfew, right? She just does. And there might be a time, let's say, last weekend, she didn't meet curfew. And I chose not to say anything. I chose not to say anything about her missing curfew. It really wasn't by that much. Situationally, I decided, I'm gonna let this one slide, because 90% of the time, she makes curfew. And so the thing was, is that she did send me a text and let me know that she was going to be late, right? I didn't see the text because I was already asleep. So I wake up when she comes home, and I notice Oh, it's late. And then in the morning, I didn't say anything that night. And in the morning, I woke up found the text and I thought, Okay, I'm still not gonna say anything because she technically did say she was going to be late. She communicated with me. Yeah, Long term, what is it that I want? I want her to communicate with me. I mean, yeah, long term, I don't want her to miss curfew. But when she's no longer in my house, I still want her to communicate with me. So my long term goal is communication. Communication. What did she do? She did communicate with me. I didn't get the text because I was asleep. Yeah. So situationally, I chose not to address it, because long term, and a majority of the time, she does communicate, and that's my goal, communication. Not that she's going to be home on time, every time,, because in a few years, I won't have a clue, right?

Mackenzie Johnson: 17:09

Yes, well, that even has me thinking about raising them. We raise them into adults, that what would the the purpose behind a curfew? I want you to be safe. And I want to know, like, I'm waiting for you to get home and that's part of the purpose for it. And so she met that of like, if your roommates are waiting up for you. Those are skills that are important to respect as you love. Yes, yes. And so the committed compliance was more about the communication. And so like, you could let go of okay, I maybe didn't do exactly what I said. Right. But we met the bigger goal here.

Lori Korthals: 17:50

Met the bigger goal, communication.

Mackenzie Johnson: 17:50

Mm hmm. Well, and so yeah, I'm like, alright, apply this to a scenario with my younger kids. Sometimes it's like, I want you to clean up right now. Right? And that's what I want. Okay, I could choose a forceful strategy. If you don't, I will, you know, I could use that. But if the situation applies like, Mom, I really want to finish what I'm working on. That's something that's important to her. My daughter's very into letters, and she's just get ready to learn how to read and all this stuff. And she's really working on that. You know, what, I think it's a good thing that you want to work on the thing that's important to you. It's a good skill to know how to finish a task. And to know yourself well enough, which I've had to learn over time, if I walk away from this task, it's hard for me to come back to it. But so okay, my initial request was, please clean up. And it's like, I can let go of the you're not going to clean up right this second. Okay, let's make a plan for cleanup so that you can finish the thing you want. Because I really want you to have that skill of finishing a task and sticking something out. That's what I want in committed compliance, not the you must clean when I say you must clean.

Lori Korthals: 18:59

Yes, it honestly is like the proverbial pick your battles, right? But in a different way. Thinking about it as it's preservation of a relationship as well. It's not just picking your battles. It's preservation of a warm, kind, loving relationship that says, I see your need to finish this task. And finishing a task is super important, especially when you get to geometry and algebra, so yeah, let's figure out how you can finish a task. We can negotiate and wow, look at all those skills she learned.

Mackenzie Johnson: 19:34

And it's the insight. Yeah, you saying the phrase of pick your battles. It's the insight to help you decide which ones. Which of these battles do I pick right now? Yes. Okay. Which one gets us towards more long term goals? Like oh, insight to picking your battles.

Lori Korthals: 19:56

Okay, all right. So I think you have one more theory you're gonna toss at us.

Mackenzie Johnson: 20:01

I sure do. Okay. Okay. You're gonna have to hang with me through the vocabulary. Okay, okay, so our theory for this week is interpersonal acceptance-rejection theory. Okay? Think of like there's like a slash or a dash between those words. Okay. Okay. So this is from Rhonor. Got it, you just go, I didn't even catch it right away. Okay. Acceptance Rejection by Rhonor in 2004. They argue that child outcomes are determined by whether kids feel like their parents are accepting or rejecting of them. So lots of research from lots of different countries really supports this theory. Like, it's not just like, well, that's a nice idea. Research supports this concept. Basically, the theory emphasizes that our behaviors as adults are related to our kids' outcomes, right? Do they have positive outcomes and positive skill building over time, in part because of the messages our behavior portrays? So there's a lot of language here, but basically, do our kids feel accepted by us? Or do they feel rejected by us, particularly, in our discipline techniques. Do our discipline techniques tell them I don't like your behavior? Or I don't like you? Yeah, right. Yes, yeah. And so the difference between acceptance and rejection so that our kids are worse off if they feel rejected by us. And then our discipline is a part of what might make them feel rejected, but that our kids fare a little bit better if they feel accepted. So I thought that was an interesting theory in the way that the message about our discipline portrays. I don't like this behavior, but I like you. Correct? What techniques can strategies can we tap into? And we're gonna keep going through this, especially the next two episodes, but what techniques and strategies can I use so that I can make sure you feel accepted by me?

Lori Korthals: 22:02

Even though I want you to choose a different behavior. Yes. Even though I'm disappointed that you were late. I want you to know I accept accept you as a human being. I love you unconditionally with all my heart, and we're going to figure out a way to help you not be late.

Mackenzie Johnson: 22:18

Yes, yes. And so I thought that was a really good insight into like, okay, the parent child relationship, you know, we walked through that it impacts our attempts to shape their behavior, and situational versus long term, committed compliance. And then this theory of, we need to look for opportunities in terms of the long term benefits of our kids, we need to find ways to guide and shape their behavior that let them know we still accept who they are.

Lori Korthals: 22:46

We still accept who they are, even if they've made a big, big mistake. Yes, you know, and along with that, helping them know that I'm gonna make mistakes, too. And I hope that you accept me and this is how I'm going to show you. We're gonna make mistakes together, we're gonna show acceptance together.

Mackenzie Johnson: 23:04

And we're going to be authentic!

Lori Korthals: 23:05

And we're gonna be authentic, unconditionally authentic. Yes. Okay. Well, I think that's a great strategy for us to talk about then this week. You know, we've been giving an that homework, we've been giving assignments, not homework, right activities, suggested activities not homework. So our suggested strategy thing to try this week is to find opportunities to engage with our children in loving and positive ways and really keep sharing that we accept them and find ways to connect with them. Maybe an activity we're going to do, maybe playing a board game, maybe just giving an extra snuggles, maybe telling them you love them just out of the blue when they least expect it, taking the long way home from an activity so you have to be in the car together and you have their undivided attention, right? You can talk about their day more. And we actually have a series of blog posts that were written a while back by our producer Mackenzie. And so it's called 101 Ways to Celebrate Your Family. And you can look that up in our www.scienceofparenting.org website. Just put in 101 Ways to Celebrate YOur Family and you should be able to find those posts. We also do some regularly scheduled webinars on positive discipline and there are some, I think, in that particular webinar on positive discipline, we have some excellent ideas on how to engage with your child in a positive way that really offers you that opportunity to be warm, loving, kind and engage with them and show that acceptance of them.

Mackenzie Johnson: 24:52

Yes, well, I think the thing that's cool about that workshop too, is that beyond understanding discipline and positive practices and stuff and not just like, what activities could you do together? Which is kind of what the blog is. It's the bigger picture of what influences that relationship? And so it's some of those bigger pieces of what influences the relationship than just positive time together. There's more to it than that. So that's a cool thing about the workshop.

Lori Korthals: 25:18

Yes, yeah. So that's also on our website as well. You can find the dates that we hold that, yes.

Mackenzie Johnson: 25:23

So okay, accountability, okay. It's our activity, your strategy, your please do this. Yes, idea for the week is find some way to just be like, Hey, this is a moment, I want to have a positive moment with my child. What's yours gonna be?

Lori Korthals: 25:42

So I think that, you know, having an emerging adult that still lives with you can sometimes be challenging. And I suspect that there's possibly moments over the last several months that maybe my emerging adult that still lives with me still maybe at times, she feels that maybe I'm not accepting of her, still being at home, working three different part time jobs and managing. And I want to spend some time with her and show her that I do accept her, that I accept and value what she's doing on her own and how far she's come. And I hope she's super proud of herself. And that's kind of the message I want to convey is she should be super proud of her. I'm super proud of her. But I want her to be proud of her.

Mackenzie Johnson: 26:27

Yes. Oh, I love that.

Lori Korthals: 26:28

Okay, how about you? Accountability?

Mackenzie Johnson: 26:33

Okay. So I complain a lot about my kids being loud but what comes to mind immediately is maybe that's a trait and I don't want them to feel like it's a bad thing. Yes. Like, I want them to know that I accept and it's not a bad thing. There are very appropriate times when it's so beneficial to have a natural volume, a natural teacher voice. But I think finding a time and an activity that we can do together even like, can we sing loud together in the kitchen. But a time when it's appropriate for us to be loud and silly. And just enjoying each other and this isn't a bad thing about you. Sometimes it's hard for me, like I don't reject this part of you. It's like finding a way to do something loud and silly together. I think it's yeah, I might have to go with singing somewhere.

Lori Korthals: 27:23

I love that. I love that. Okay, awesome. We'll check back in next week and see how we did.

Mackenzie Johnson: 27:29

We will. Oh, so that brings us to our Stop. Breathe. Talk. space where we bring in our producer Mackenzie DeJong. And she asks us some kind of off the cuff question. We're never quite sure what she's gonna ask.

Lori Korthals: 27:41

Last week was a doozy. It was a doozy. She caught us.

Mackenzie DeJong: 27:51

Alright, yeah. So my question is, we're talking all about that positive parent child relationship. And what if the parent looks at their relationship with their child and they see a negative relationship, maybe it's kind of been historically a more negative relationship, or they see it as a negative relationship, and maybe something they want to work on. How might you? I guess what would be like the first step you'd see in changing that narrative, starting over, flipping and getting into a positive relationship?

Mackenzie Johnson: 28:27

I love that question.

Lori Korthals: 28:30

Do you want to go or do you want me to?

Mackenzie Johnson: 28:31

I want you to.

Lori Korthals: 28:34

Well, I wish I was as quick as Mackenzie is sometimes at quickly figuring out which episode we did. Right? But I know that one of the episodes that really impacted me, was the episode that we did on how to repair our relationships, right? How do we, how do we go back and say, Wow, I really messed that up as the adult? And I think that there was a point in my parenting where I realized that that was super important. And that I needed to acknowledge and be okay with telling my girls, yeah, I blew that one. How about we try that again? Yes. And I think I really cling to that opportunity. I see that as an opportunity. That yes, I don't have to set my sights on being a perfect parent. That I can do my best that day with the skills I have that day, pull out the tools I can and then go to them and say, Man, I really actually have to ask you for some forgiveness because that did not go the way I wanted it to. And so I feel like there have been points in my life and my parenting where things were negative, more negative than I wanted, more harsh than I wanted them to be and being okay with saying, I messed up, with was one of the best tools I ever put in my toolbox. I messed up. Yeah, my toolbox. Yes.

Mackenzie DeJong: 30:05

And oftentimes when we talk about repair in the context of our podcast, we've been talking about it in terms of like, you said something wrong, you did something wrong, but this would be like long term. So it might not be, you know, automatically fixed from that apology. Right? It would be a starting point.

Mackenzie Johnson: 30:27

Yes. And I think, yeah, you're right, we're usually talking about a short term repair when I think about it. And actually, I might get a little teary. That happens to me from time to time. I think of situations where it's like, you know what, I was going through a really tough time. I think of parents who are or have recovered from addiction, or are in recovery. I think of parents who are going through a divorce and parents, you know, there's all kinds of different stressful situations that were elongated, like it wasn't like that day, I was grouchy. I was absent. And I think as we look at their situations like that, and I think the thing that would be, oh, not gonna cry, might be really powerful as a parent, and you know, as an adult child, but when your child is old enough to be able to be specific, and kind of breaking it down. And these were your needs, acknowledging that part of it of, you know what, you probably did need more help with this. You needed more support, you needed somebody to guide you and I'm sorry, I didn't, right. And so I think breaking that down a little bit more specifically. And I mean, going back, you can even use the dimensions of warmth versus expectations. What are the needs they had that maybe I wasn't meeting, but acknowledging them. Like I do see you and I see how that wasn't helpful. And then, you know, even on the boundary side that on the expectation side, like, you know what, I should have been there to help you with that. I should have been there to, you know, whatever it might have been. And so I do, I think there's this opportunity to acknowledge but in looking at the bigger picture of yeah, not just like, you know, what, I should have not yelled, but like, I should have been more present, or I should have been more helpful. But acknowledging those needs, I would say, is a really powerful way to tell your kids I love you and I see this, and I see that I didn't do what I could have and what you maybe deserved. And I'm really sorry, and all that. So yeah, I do. Yeah, I think it's powerful. And we know, every parenting situation looks so different. And I think of some people I know. Yeah, as they're separating in the relationship, and co-parenting, like, okay, my child is not a pawn in this. But the urge, like, I know that and the urge to still do that. And so everybody's situation is so different. And we're gonna have times where we feel like super parents and times where we don't. And if it does feel like there's been chunks of a relationship that have not been positive. We can repair it. But yeah, looking at the bigger picture of it. Love it. Yeah. Love it. I did not cry. Close call.

Lori Korthals: 33:18

And it would have been fine if you did. Yes.

Mackenzie DeJong: 33:21

I do want to just say thanks to Barb for bailing me out on that question. But you all didn't know that but I was scrambling in the background. Kind of the insight in the background. And sometimes I feel like, you know, we do talk more in depth. But sometimes we talk pretty shallow. And that is something that's very real to a lot of parents, is that that underlying stuff.

Mackenzie Johnson: 33:52

Yeah, sometimes it can feel shallow because it maybe isn't experiences that like the three of us, the four of us on our team, the two of us are like so familiar with and yeah, we don't want to skip that part of the conversation and that experience of other parents. So I'm really glad to have the four of us to work together to try to bring those things to light. But yeah, also as listener or viewer, you can bring those things to light for us to give us reminders, give us ways we can be more inclusive in our conversations around parenting. Absolutely.

Lori Korthals: 34:24

Well, thanks Kenz.

Mackenzie Johnson: 34:26

Yeah, that was a big one.

Lori Korthals: 34:29

Two weeks in a row.

Mackenzie Johnson: 34:31

Oh, yeah. Two weeks in a row. They're big ones. Yeah. Well, thank you, Kenz. Yeah, we looked at this episode on the parent child relationship, right, that it's defined by both our behaviors and the connection, the overall relationship with our kids and that that connection is going to impact whether it's easier or more effective when we go and try to do discipline and shaping behavior. And so we also think about the compliance when we are picking those battles. Do we want to pick the situational compliance? Right? I'll make you listen right now. Or I hope that over time, this becomes a behavior that's important to you to enact committed compliance. So we're gonna think about that. And also, we're gonna do our out of class activity. Yes. Podcast episode on finding a way to kind of celebrate that relationship with our kids. And let them know that we love them.

Lori Korthals: 35:24

We are. And so what's next? Well, next week, what we're going to do is we're going to gauge by their age. All right, we're going to break down the discipline techniques by what age the child is. So we've done that a couple times. We broke down temperament by age. We just broke down child development by age. And now this time, we're going to break down guidance and discipline by age. So thanks for joining us on The Science of Parenting podcast today. And remember, if you're a regular listener, don't forget that you can actually watch our episodes on video, right? And sometimes our producer tosses in some cool visuals and so, you know, just fast forward to find the visuals otherwise, if you listen right, but don't forget, you can watch us on video as well.

Mackenzie Johnson: 36:13

So thanks for joining us, and we hope that you come along with us to tackle the ups and downs, the ins and outs, and the research and reality, all around The Science of Parenting.

Lori Korthals: 36:22

The Science of Parenting is hosted by Lori Korthals and Mackenzie Johnson, produced by Mackenzie DeJong, with research and writing by Barbara Dunn Swanson. Send in questions and comments to parenting@iastate.edu and connect with us on Facebook and Twitter. This institution is an equal opportunity provider. For the full non-discrimination statement or accommodation inquiries, go to www.extension.iastate.edu/diversity/ext