Messy Play, Big Learning | S.17 Ep.4

We connect messy play to meaningful learning, showing how everyday curiosity builds science, technology, engineering, and math skills. From cardboard ramps to kitchen experiments, discover simple ways to weave STEM at home into play without turning it into schoolwork.

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Welcome back to The Science of Parenting podcast, where we connect you with research based information that fits your family. We'll talk about the realities of being a parent and how research can help guide parenting decisions. I'm Mackenzie Dejong-Schelling, podcast co-host, and I'm a parenting educator. Today our guest is our colleague in health and human sciences and our friend Melissa Wagner. Melissa is here to talk to us about how her family works to support curiosity, exploration, and problem solving in those preschool and elementary years. So welcome to the podcast, Melissa. We would love it if we'd start things off with you just telling us a little bit about yourself. Well, thanks for having me. I'm Melissa. I work with the early childhood programs with Health and Human Sciences Extension and Outreach. I'm also the parent of an eight year old who just started third grade and an almost three year old, and the step parent of a 19 year old who has started her adult journey. Yeah, so you've got a couple in that elementary preschool age, and then you have one that is actually an emerging adult. Oh my goodness. So our focus today is going to be on those younger kiddos. But we can pull from that experience that you've had with your your stepdaughter as well. Your two younger kids are actually about the same age as a couple of my nephews, and like I said, that's kind of the age range we're focused on today. So I'm actually really curious, I know the things that my nephews are into, I’m wondering if any of, if your kids are into any of the same things that they're into. So what are some of your children's favorite activities, interests? Those sorts of things. I feel like it kind of changes every day. But right now, my eight year old, she just started volleyball. Ooh. She wants to do Clover Kids again. Excellent. She loves to do Legos and anything arts and crafts, crafty, kind of stuff. My three year old, he's just into anything with wheels. So cars, tractors, trucks, likes building with blocks or Magna-Tiles, and he's really at his element when he's in the dirt or sand or any type of water play. Oh my goodness. Yeah, there's some, some things that overlap there for sure. And I know that we talked to Hailey a little bit about this too. And she said some of the same things you said that I know that my nephews are into. Those, those sciency things, the Legos, circuits, the crafts, all the crafts. You said crafts. She said her daughter's into all the crafts. I know my niece was to, sports, those sorts of things, but yeah, it sounds like there's there's some overlap there. And, you know, as we talk through that kind of helps us to frame up our conversation for today. There's kind of STEM throughout all of it, although, you know, you might not think of crafts as STEM or sports as STEM, it still can be. And that's, that's kind of where we decided, as we talked about, what do we want to focus on for this conversation? We could talk about all things parenting, but that might be more than one episode's worth. So we wanted to, excuse me, we wanted to focus in on what, okay, what what is one topic we can talk about, and because we do have Sarah Nelson, who is all things STEM in her role, coming on the next episode, we said, why don't we just focus in on the STEM aspect of parenting? So let's focus in on those aspects of those things they like to do, and where does STEM come out in that, and how does that look, what does that look like within your parenting journey? So let's, let's do that. Just kind of setting ourselves up for our conversation, and so the listeners are kind of like,“wait, what are we doing?” STEM. Yeah, that sounds great. Yeah, so we're going to focus in on kind of those research and reality pieces related to STEM and parenting, because it does play throughout. So to ground us in that science here, yes, that was on purpose, according to the National Science Foundation, the early, early childhood is a critical period for STEM development. And just as a reminder, STEM is science, technology, engineering and math. Kids are born curious. They ask questions, they explore, and then they try to figure out how it works. All before they ever set foot in a classroom. And that is STEM, right? Oh, absolutely. Kids in preschool and early elementary aren't just playing. They're experimenting. Whether they're building a tower or figuring out how to pour without spilling. Noticing patterns in nature. They're engaging in real STEM learning. I've seen that with my own kids. Everything becomes a chance to just investigate. Absolutely, and the research says the same thing. It supports that. In 2018, a report from the National Academies of Sciences emphasized that early, playful experience with STEM concepts actually lay the foundation for later learning. So when families talk about numbers, shapes, patterns, cause and effects during those everyday routines, kids build cognitive skills that will serve them long into the future. Right, and the best part is kids don't need like a fancy lab or some high tech toys. You don't need to spend a lot of money on this. STEM learning can happen with cardboard boxes, sticks from the yard, water in the sink. The key is just giving them space to explore, asks some questions and try things out, even if sometimes it gets a little messy or doesn't work the first time, I think. Absolutely. The mess can be pretty challenging for some of us. Sometimes we hover over and are always trying to prevent that mess, or trying to make sure they get it right just the first time. And sometimes when we're doing that or, you know, not letting our children get dirty and get their clothes dirty, when we do that, we're often preventing children from the play and exploration they need to grow and develop. So instead, it's, we often need to just sit back and try asking questions to encourage that curiosity and sense of wonder. And remember that using clean up can be a daily learning experience as well. Absolutely, right? So we can learn from all pieces of it and it's okay to get dirty. It's actually, so I read a study recently that found that parents that wonder aloud, so if they narrate their curiosity, they actually can help their children stay engaged longer in those activities, and they develop deeper thinking skills while they do it. So, you know, instead of,“no, don't do that,” or giving them the answers right away, and in as they're playing, you can say things like, you know,“I wonder what would happen if we stack this block here,” or“how do you think the water actually moves through that pipe?” And that kind of language can help invite the kids to get involved and explore that problem solving process, and I think it's also good to model that it's, it's not about having the right answer. It's okay. It's, it's more about that exploration piece. Yeah, my children actually often start out with some of the questions, especially in the car. They might be asking like,“why is the moon out today during the day,” or “why is the sky blue?” And so then I just often follow up, again while in the car, and ask more questions or wonder why we can't see the moon out today.“Does the moon move or does the Earth?”“How do we know?” Or “is the sky always blue?”“When do we see the sky a different color?”“I wonder why that is.” And then sometimes we need to explore more when we get home. Maybe we find a book, or maybe we just do some observations for the next few days. Sure. See what we can come up with. And there are other ways too, like that I'm often asking those questions and that can be just right along with her play. Sure. So they could, we could just be asking them“what happens if you put another block on top?”“How will you prevent your tower from falling down?”“Why doesn't that magnet stick to the cabinet?” Yeah. Those, those little questions as things go. I know that you had mentioned that like, yeah, the car questions, you're like,“I don't have the answers.”“I don't want to think about the an,” okay, you didn't say like that. You're nicer about it. But you were like,“I, that is not the time that I am wanting to, like, think of the answers.” So just saying “why does, why is the sky blue?”“Why is the moon?”“What do you think?” That you don't have to have the answer. And you know, in that it, it reminds us that STEM is not only just, it's not just like STEM, right? It's social too. It's kind of that involvement. Those relationships. And actually, according to the National Association for the Education of Young Children, children do learn best when they're engaged in those hands on and those shared experiences. So asking those questions, getting them involved in things like a family science night or baking together in the kitchen, those back and forth interactions is really where that magic happens and where that learning kind of explodes. Yeah, right. Like cooking, gardening, building a blanket fort, the all count as STEM. Heck yeah. You know, we're measuring, problem solving, testing out different designs, and those everyday moments are more memorable and meaningful than any worksheet. Absolutely. Way more fun to have than sitting down to do worksheets. So let's focus on that math piece of STEM for a second. We know that within just the environment right now, there's a lot of pressure around math achievement.“What are the math scores?”“What do those look like even in those early grades?” But what we do know is that math confident, confidence often begins at home. And it's shaped by how kids see their parents talk about it. Right? That modeling piece that we talk about a lot within the Science of Parenting. So what would you say to parents who might feel intimidated about the concept of like,“oh, I need to be teaching math.” Right, first, I would say not to put the pressure on yourself. Like, you don't have to be an expert in algebra two or calculus by any means. You're working with young children and, and you can kind of discover as you go as well, but it can be simple. Start with what you're already doing. Are you counting steps? Are you sorting socks? Are you comparing prices at the store? That's all math. You don't need to be an expert in any means. What matters most is showing that math is useful. It can be fun, and it's something we can all figure out together. One of our favorite activities that I slip math into is just baking with my children. With, with my three year old, it might be counting three teaspoons of vanilla as he dumps it into the bowl. Whereas my third grader, we might be exploring more like fractions. Like, oh, “our one cup measuring cup is already dirty.”“How can we measure one cup?” Absolutely. Or it might be“we need to double this cookie recipe,”“so what is twice the amount of one cup?” Yeah, I know that, as an adult, I've had those things go through my head and having, I'm honestly, having someone a problem solver with me wouldn't hurt. So being able to figure out,“oh, you know, all we have for one third cups. How many one third cups do we need to have one cup of sugar?” I love that. And it's a great reminder that STEM doesn't mean that it's a lesson, you have to have a lesson plan, right? STEM learning doesn't equal a lesson plan. It's curiosity. It's connection. It's that creativity, even creativity, plays in the STEM. So, Melissa, I know we've shared a couple of stories, but I would love to hear more about some of your family's favorite ways that you do encourage that STEM thinking at home. Oh, sure. Well, one of the biggest things is just going outside and exploring. We love to go on nature walks. We'll explore the trees, the plants, the flowers, the flowing creek. Towards the end of summer, we always search our trees for cicada skins. And we talk a lot about the other insects we see outdoors, whether they're in the grass or on the flowers. And then we also, you know, sometimes we even go out and we will, it'll be a light rain, and we still go outside. Yeah. Right? We put on kind of some raincoats and, and rain boots and especially after rain when we have puddles that we can jump in and dig and pour in the mud, that we can search for all that nature that comes out, those animals that come out after rain like frogs and worms. Yep. Yeah, we spend lots of time splashing in puddles, and we also have, they're really interested in checking the rain gauge.“How much rain did we get?”“How much did we get last week?” My son has actually put his own little bucket out that he hangs up, and so he has to check how much is in his bucket every time after a rain. Oh, I love that. Yeah. And so and, we also always, we plant flowers and take care of plants. And this year we planted sunflowers, like we do every year, but they just aren't blooming like they do. The aren’t as big. They're in is vibrant. They don't last very long. So we've had lots of discussion on“well what's going on this year.” You know, “what have we not done, or what are we not doing, that our sunflowers are not blooming as well this year?” Oh, I love that. I, so my dad, he's retired now, but he was an agronomist, and I'm hearing that you're basically doing agronomy. You're talking about that, you're talking about rain levels and why the plants aren’t thriving. So that's all, it's all science. We just might have a name specifically for that. But it's all science and even a little bit of math in there. I heard that, you know,“as we're checking the rain gauge, do we have a fourthm an eighth, we have a full inch of rain depending on the day.” They're all really great ways that you're exploring STEM outside, while you're in nature. I'm also wondering, so those are for the great, the days when we can be outside, but we know in Iowa we have rainy days. We also have cold, snowy winters where days that, you know, you may want to be inside. So are there ways that you explore STEM while you're inside at home. Right, yeah, sometimes we just bring, nature indoors. So we might, maybe it's way too cold to be outside. You know, the those frigid temps. But I'll just run out and grab some snow and put it in a tub, or even some water. We put sand in a tub and just throw down some towels and let the children dig and pour and and do all that. Sometimes we add, some colors to the water and let them make some colors, or add bubbles and let them explore that way. We also often save like shipping boxes, shoe boxes, cereal, but, you know, and then get all the arts and crafts stuff like pipe cleaners, glue, yarn, craft sticks and then just let their imagination soar. It's a great way to encourage problem solving and ask some open ended questions like, how “are you going to get that to stick together,” right?“How are you going to get that so it'll stand up?” And then another way is my son right now really loves like I said balls and cars, and so we might use pieces of wood or boxes, paper towel rolls, gutter pipes is also a great option, to make ramps and test out, you know, that fast slow and, and “does this roll through, does it not?” And all those different types of things. So much fun. And I have to say I'd be there right with you. When the arts and crafts, doing the color mixing and building the ramps and seeing how high we could probably get those ramps and how far when the car goes off of the ramps, we can make it go right. Like, “how far can that car go?” So, absolutely. And and those are all science, right? Those are all pieces of what is the angle, what is, how high is it, all bits of using those science words throughout in that exploration. I love it. Do you have any like, I guess I'm thinking those were like, materials. Do you have any toys in your house that count as, like, quote, STEM education? Oh, sure, yeah. It was, we I mean, we have blocks. We have, you know, wood blocks, and then we have the Legos, and then we have the Magna-Tile blocks, other types of blocks to build with. We also have marble runs, which are really fun, snap circuits. So much fun. And then just like rulers and measuring tapes, too. My son loves measuring everything right now. We, you know, we measure the dogs. Which one's bigger? But then that leads into a lot of questions to, “which one's bigger?”“Smaller? How do you know?” The other thing he's really into right now is playing with the flashlight. So just something as simple as a flashlight and exploring shadows, as well as what’s translucent and opaque. Those big words are great for learning. It's kind of a science experiment for him. So and my daughter loves her own little science experiments, which with a few basic materials on hand, like baking soda, vinegar and maybe some food coloring, there's lots of different science experiments you can find out there and you can find them online. And a lot of those websites too, will kind of give you the why behind it. So you don't have to be the expert at all at knowing why, but maybe it'll encourage you to find the right questions to ask them, to help them explore a little bit. Absolutely. Yeah, so I think one of the pieces that we're hoping parents here is that you don't have to be the experts in science. I think that's something that we, we try to, you know, we've been throughout is that you don't always have to be the expert on all these things, but like knowing that you can use those questions or use trusted resources that you can go to because you don't have to be the expert. Speaking of those trusted resources, I'm curious, so we talked about kind of the in-home staff, one of the other aspects of parenting is being involved in out of the house, out of, you know, those out of the house, but still maybe out of school activities. Are your kids involved in any other extracurriculars that relate to STEM? Oh, yeah. We love seeking out community opportunities, 4-H, 4-H camps, throughout the summer we check those out. There's a nature camp my children always attend every summer. Sometimes there's special activities at the library, or we just visit a museum. And then my oldest was actually lucky enough to participate in an engineering camp, which she just loved for several years. And these are all opportunities that can take STEM to the next level beyond what I can do at home, what we can do at home. It’s just in another step. Absolutely, ways to get them engaged in those community pieces and those, those out of, out of home activities. And, as we're talking about it, I will just say that if you're listening and thinking, “oh, but I want to know more about that out of school,” next episode., right? We'll talk about that next episode. Sarah will talk in depth about what it looks like to get involved in some of those activities, what to look for. So don't worry about that in this episode, we're talking about kind of the at home, but start to think about what we can get involved it, so. Looking at just those pieces of what your children are interested, those sorts of things. So kind of turning back to the home as we get close to our end here. I have a question for you. So I've kind of we've kind of been shaping this as our, our stop, breathe, talk piece, but I'm just asking the question, as kind of our final, final topic of discussion. So my question for you is, how does a parent encourage STEM learning at home without turning it into more work or making it feel like kids are at school, even at home? It's a great question. I think the biggest thing is just follow your child's lead. They're really into dinosaurs, outer space or how the toaster works? Go with it. Keep it playful and relationship based, as I said. Yeah. Just keep following their lead. They learn best when they're engaged and curious and supported, and not so much when they're feeling like they're going to be tested on something or they need to get it right or perfect. Instead of making STEM a task, make it part of your everyday kind of just rythm. Like, how can you continue to ask questions, notice patterns, build something, building something together, or just celebrating their effort, rather than always that end result and whether or not it's perfect and they got it right. Yep. I think another key is also just to say,“I don't know, let's find out together.” Right? To model that lifelong learning and the need for wonder and curiosity. Yes, I love that. Again, it's that reminder that, like, we don't have to know all the answers. And we can figure it out together. And that makes it more fun for us to, to do that exploration. So I love that. Thank you so much for those thoughts and kind of as we close listeners, a reminder that early childhood is that critical window window for curiosity and exploration and STEM learning happens naturally through play, daily routines and those family conversations. Right? So during that critical window play leads to STEM. And parents don't have to be the experts. All you have to be, just like your kids, be curious, be engaged. And those small actions like asking questions, encouraging observation, and building together can really support those big developmental skills. Absolutely. STEM is more about than science and math. It's about helping kids become thinkers, problem solvers, and explorers. As a parent, we're the first and most important teachers. Absolutely. But that teaching doesn't have to look like that classroom, that classroom setting, for sure. So thank you Melissa. We've been, I've enjoyed this whole conversation. We're so grateful to have you. I just know that, I know the side of you that is working with early childhood, and one comment that I know as we were chatting was, Barb, Barb said, you bring your, your knowledge of environments into how you parent. And I think that hopefully parents can kind of take some of that away, as well as setting that environment up so that they can explore those. So I really enjoyed having that conversation with you, and your insights and your stories and hearing a little bit about, your, your parenting journey. So thank you for that. To our listeners, thank you for being here today with us on The Science of Parenting. Just as a reminder, you can subscribe on Apple, Spotify, basically wherever you like to listen to podcasting, including on YouTube. So we are on YouTube. If you're listening, thinking,“I want to watch this and see what their beautiful faces look like and what pops up on the screen,” make sure to check us out on YouTube. So, as always. Come along as we tackle the ups and downs, the ins and outs, and the research and reality all around The Science of Parenting. The Science of Parenting is a research-based education program hosted by Mackenzie DeJong-Schelling, produced and edited by Brock Beirman, with contributions from Barbara Dunn-Swanson, Dr. Connie Beecher, Hailey Walker, and Morgan Newell. Send in questions and comments to parenting@iastate.edu and connect with us on Facebook. This program is brought to you by Iowa State University Extension and Outreach.